To thick for feminism?

ugly, what is FWR please?

I don't think of it as a hive mentality either but I'd need to be confident in an underlying definition in order to use the term more often.

e.g. atheist - person who doesn't believe in god - seems to be universally understood, regardless of what some people might add to it.

I actually think a lot of people shy away from using the word feminist because of a lack of knowledge/understanding of a baseline for what it means.

I agree that we should agree that we don't agree with each other all the time. Why should we? It's another attempt at dehumanising women.

lorelei: "I'm wary of using term "feminist" because it seems to mean so many things other than equal rights."

I do see what you mean: specifically because in my book feminism does not mean equal rights at all (e.g. reproductive rights can never be equal) and in general too, as there is no 'official' definition of the term (everyone has their own favourite defining quote, but there's still no consensus), so you don't know what positions you are implicitly aligning yourself with. But I don't see that as a reason not to "come out" as feminist - on the contrary, there's currently another threads live on FWR where the OP seems to be labouring under the delusion that feminism is some sort of "hive mind" (we're bees, apparently, or the borg) whereas the reality is much more diverse. And that's healthy, imo, and should really be acknowledged much more.

uglyswan "you'll find jargon, wanky pretentious bollocks (like my post) and infighting in just about every political and/philosophical movement you "

this is one reason I don't go round saying "I'm a (whatever)" here, with the exception of saying I'm an atheist. Occasionally someone says "you are an atheist - what do you think about x y z" and I have no idea what they are talking about, because to me it's a simple as not believing in God and wanting amendments to religious privilege in law.

I'm wary of using term "feminist" because it seems to mean so many things other than equal rights. And tbh I have heard self proclaimed feminists say that they can't see the point of things like paternity leave. Then there is the more complex matter of parenthood, which I see separately to feminism. Oh, and then there's the "victimhood" problem.

So in all, a lot of problems with it. And "egalitarian" seems to not be a real thing or seems to have been hijacked by MRA.

"Sounds much cleverer than 'it's boring innit'" - indeed. But is probably a good deal less accurate. OP, you'll find jargon, wanky pretentious bollocks (like my post) and infighting in just about every political and/philosophical movement you can name: be it feminism, liberalism or even plain old-fashioned marxism. Some terms are interesting and important (you tend to notice things more if there's a term for them and they provide a better basis for discussion) - others are just fighting words.

The consent rule - it winds me up very much when people tickle children against their will, and also people demanding hugs and kisses. When they were little I stood up for them - your cute little grandchild/cousin/whatever does not feel like being hugged today, can you just fuck off - but a bit more politely ... Now I don't quite know what to do. Perhaps I'll teach them to just hold out their hands to shake ...

you dont even need a GCSE to be a feminist. You just have to believe that women should have the same rights across the board as men do.

You dont need to know all the terminology. You dont even need to have the same opinions as half the feminists on mumsnet. We're just people with different views and priorities for the details, but with the basic similarity that we believe in equality for women

These are just things that I wish I'd been taught really. I try to pass them on.

That sounds just like how I want to be with my dd Chris. She's probably going to learn about consent before she learns to tie her shoe laces, I'm so keen for her to know what I didn't!

I do go on twitter, but mostly follow gender critical people of all sorts. I don't tend to tweet much, more use it to keep up to date as I find you get news quickest on there. One of my proudest moments was when Mary Beard favourited one of my tweets! (Sorry I had to mention it,!)

Engineer I like your name. :)

Hello fasting!

I don't post a lot but I have learned a lot from this board. :) And certainly I have learned a lot that I can use in RL to counter some action/speech, and to explain why certain things felt wrong. It is very liberating.

Chris, your actions sound good!

Engineer, it's hard to strike a balance but ultimately I respond to the post in front of me whether it's from a regular or a newbie. I know there are regulars and we know each other's rhythms but hopefully that doesn't make us unwelcoming.

Not really Lass, because it's not about you

I didn't say it was- "oh dear" as a comment doesn't add much to the debate.

Another mainly-lurkrer, only occasional poster, for much the same reason that FYC is.

No PhD, but a masters. Very shy IRL.

Another reason I don't post much, and this isn't about thick, per se, but a lot of freds on which I lurk start to get bun-fighty on sometimes really minor points. I know the posters and issues well enough that I know its not, say, regulars v trolls, for instance, and that a lot of times the regulars really do agree on something but get a bit fiddly in the exact wording.

And I just don't want to wander into that and make a fool of myself. But that doesn't seem to stop the trolls, of course.

Hello fasting :)

I rarely post on Feminism either. Only because I'm not adding anything new to the argument. I've learned a lot and people have always been kind when I have posted.

As a layman I keep getting stuck. I argue with people on Facebook if they put something up that I don't agree with. I daren't argue on Twitter or the like (even though I'd love to) because of previous DV and any knowing that any threats etc. would really hurt me.

Them I feel as though I'm letting the side down and letting the misogynists win, because their threats scare me, so I shut up. And I hate that.

So I try to do the small things in my life and with my children and friends, to combat inequality. I point out gendered advertising to the dcs, and we all laugh at it. I teach my ds's about consent and my DC about how no one, not even me, has a right to touch her if she says she doesn't want them to.

I teach my dd that she always has a right to say no and for it to be respected. Because when you're told "no means no" but you're also told, "if you're on a date it's your duty to stay with him all night no matter how badly it is going" (and yes my df did say those actual words to 15 year old me) then that's contradictory.

These are just things that I wish I'd been taught really. I try to pass them on.

OP, Lass isn't responding to your posts particularly; she says similar things on many FWR threads.

Sorry if you find feminism clicky - is that on MN or in general?

Not really Lass, because it's not about you.

Lass, for someone who says they aren't a feminist because they don't like the victimhood mentality, you don't half enjoy playing that card on these boards.

We agree on somethings, disagree on others (particularly your representation of what other people have said) - but the last thing you are is thick. Immovable maybe, but not thick.