God, this is depressing

That makes absolute sense.

I'm always grateful to discover homes that are as untidy as mine as it makes me feel better than mine. And I sometimes feel intimidated and inferior to women who have beautiful homes.

Should more women embrace the mess?

Otoh, a clean and tidy home can be such a restful haven. There's a balance.

I think women's focus on cleaning is an active patriarchal socialisation tactic, as sleepyhead has said. It's an deliberate attempt to limit their perspective to the sphere they have been assigned, give them a greater sense of illusory control over their lives and add additional layers of disruptive stress to their head space.

The male 'not-really-caring' effect is less a product of active socialisation and more a lack of negative programming.

I think its probably a combination of upbringing, partner and societal expectations. But there must be some sort of personality thing involved too. I was absolutely brought up to do my fair share of housework, but now I live on my own I get away with doing as little as possible.

With the upbringing, I'd be more inclined to "blame" fathers who do naff all around the house, giving DSs the impression that women do housework.

With partners, I'd wonder if that's how the partner was brought up to. My parents shared childcare and housework outside of working hours (mum was a SAHP) so I always thought of those things as being the responsibility of everyone in the household.

Men (NAMALT ) are generally more ok with living in squalor because they know (or don't even think about the possibility) that they will be judged on it.

I am a naturally untidy person and also quite lazy. I have to work hard at keeping my environment clean and tidy. I do it because a) it's depressing to live in squalor and b) I would be mortified for anyone to see the state it sometimes gets in to.

I was brought up by my mother, and from comments heard in real life and read on here this is a common perception, that lack of care of my home environment made a statement about me - a woman who doesn't clean to society's standard is a slattern, lazy, uncaring, unhygienic etc.

I don't believe that men (NAMALT) are brought up with the same internalisation re: domestic environment reflecting their worth as a person.

Are women in general too fussy about having a clean and tidy household? I don't think I am but my house is below average as far as being tidy and nicely decorated goes.

Good question!

IMO girls/women are still culturally conditioned to be 'caring'. Homemaker comes into this category.

More men than women don't mind living in squalor?

Men are much more likely to be selfish - just not willing to give their time up.

I was dismayed to hear my DD's (now ex) 19YO BF who she shared a flat with laughingly tell me that his DF had admitted to deliberately making a bad job of a household chore in order to not be asked to do it again. (I told him my feelings about that!) Ex bf and his DF are very thoughtful people who try to live ethically - but it doesn't seem to extend to spending any time on household stuff.

DD said that she agreed with the argument that as she had higher standards of cleanliness and tidiness than him it was fair enough that she do more housework (despite being busier than him).

IMO many men view housework (and caring) as beneath them.

DS (16) has a lovely lovely friend who is very thoughtful and mature - but he's very entitled as far as domestic stuff goes. Getting him to bring his dirty plates etc to the kitchen or take a turn doing the dishwasher on a shared holiday was more bother than it was worth.

I share your depression.

There are several current threads on here that are equally depressing.