Fathers of daughters

A female (normally quite enlightened) relative said to DH when we were talking about playing backyard cricket with kids at Christmas, 'well if you have more boys you'll enjoy doing that'.

Thankfully DH came straight back with 'I'll be doing that with my girls too if we have any!'

Agree with a pp on finding it very weird when groups divide off into male and female, that happens a lot here in Australia and it always feels very divisive to me.

A friend of mine - who I wouldn't have said was sexist before - has a small daughter and actually called me up after he saw the 'throws like a girl' ad (was it Dove? Can't remember) - it was a real lightbulb moment for him.

Unfortunately he then completely mansplained it to me (it's the language we use! It's so limiting!),so I'm not wholly convinced it's a proper conversion...

My daughter was born when I was 17, so too far back for me to remember if I had an epiphany - I feel as if I have always had this mindset my entire adult life that gender should not decide who you are going to become.

Worryingly, I now have a 4 year old boy (just started reception) and seem to be spending half my time at the moment telling him outright that girls can do anything boys can do. I can not believe how this rubbish permeates into their minds at the age of 4. I am really starting to wonder if sending him to a faith school was a bad idea (but that might just be my prejudice against faith schools showing). I was also really saddened to see that at their recent nativity they had an all female cast of angels and all male cast of shepherds. For a class of 4 year olds.

I wasn't sure...

I wasn't what to think when my daughter was born, although both of us were very keen to have a girl. My stance with her is for her to take the "first foot forward" approach and make her own decisions.

I respect her immensely, she had her college plans together by herself and has a firm view of future career. We've been through contraception, periods, sex, career et al together.

She often comes to talk to me and my only stance is her respect. Her boyfriend has been disrespecting her recently and she asked my opinion. I love our setup.

My father on the other hand has viewed her as his special flower, a meek little girl who will get married, pump out great-gc and have a cute job somewhere. She's grown up resilient, strong willed and with a pragmatic, steely core. She's put him in his place many times.

Sorry if not exactly on-topic.

I think a lot of men experience a bit of an epiphany when they have a daughter, whether that's going to buy sports kit and finding it only labelled as boys shirts or seeing them steered towards home economics and arts subjects for their GCSEs. I don't think that this is a bad thing - realization that there is a patriarchy is surely a necessary step to helping dismantle it?

I read an article a while back written by a white man who had children with a black woman and was now experiencing, through them, what life as a black American meant and how it was so different to his personal life experience to date. Maybe having a daughter is akin to this for many men?

This article might be interesting - quotes various research showing that male CEOs, judges, and politicians with daughters appear to make different choices to those without: www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/10/26/ceos-with-daughters-run-more-socially-responsible-companies-research-finds/

Not my experience, sorry. My father (2 dd and one ds) was/is hugely misogynistic, placed little value on my sister's/my education on the basis that we only needed to get a "little office job" until we were married anyway. Ironically, he sent us to an excellent single sex secondary school to keep us away from boys not because of the academic opportunities it offered.

Having said which, I give him great credit for my academic success, my feminist principles and my career (all of which I acquired, in the first instance, as an act of rebellion).

My dh is definitely more enlightened since we had dd. How this pans out when ds arrives in a few months I don't know. I'm already sick of being told how great it is dh will now have someone to do sports with (because obviously he could never do this with his daughter ).

On the other hand I am one of two girls and df is pretty sexist until challenged (when he will seriously back track), and fil is very sexist despite having 2 daughters and dh.

Whereas a man who has sons will share all the male stuff with the boys, and leave the girls to learn from their mother.

I have seen this very much in dp's family. It was a bit surprising to me at first that whenever we attended a family event, the men would go off one way, the women another. I still find it very strange. His sister (the youngest after two boys) had an entirely different upbringing to her siblings.

In my family I am the oldest child and have a younger brother. From when my dad was around I actually think he was quite encouraging and supportive of me. (As supportive as an abusive, alcoholic and violent man is able to be). I feel as though we had some connection and maybe he thought of me as being capable of anything. I don't know though, I could be doing that thing where we only remember the good stuff. He certainly was not enlightened when it came to his treatment of my mother but I feel like it was different with me. I don't know though.

My DH is firmly feminist, and he became so on the birth of dd1. He became so besotted, and read up soooo much on how her life might pan out....that he became very pro-women!!

You should hear him rant sometimes about men!!!

My mum is the eldest of three girls - no boys - and was treated as the most worthy of "serious adult" conversation and argument (about business, politics etc) by her father and took over the family business from him. The other two were left to do girl things/whatever. I suspect mum was the substitute son and often wonder if she would be running the business (which she is very good at) if one of her younger siblings had been male.

There are studies shown fathers of women are more left wing.
I come from a family with almost exclusively women in my generation (sisters and cousins) and it very much the case the men in my family are v pro women and never had limited expectations of us.
DH's parents on the other hand are quite negative about women whether they are working or 'living off their sons'. And OBSESSED with false rape accusations.
Its been v hard to get used to tbh.

In my experience, yeah, men can become more sympathetic to feminism when they have daughters. I've seen it in DH and others.

I don't know any men who do the 'make trouble for the boyfriend/no boyfriends til they're 80' schtick though. I wouldn't find it amusing. I genuinely don't get why people feel that way. My Dad was the opposite, he was very much of the, 'get out there and have some fun' variety. I think that gave me a lot of confidence/strong self esteem.

I don't like all this talk of shotguns. Surely a child who grew up in a feminist household would be able to avoid either being exploited, or exploiting anyone else?

But my friends who have one of each typically say things like "you'll make a good wife one day" to their Dds

I can't imagine DH ever saying that, unless he was looking to tease me. To be fair though, he has said he'll take a shot gun to boys that come round. He says he'll lend it to me for girls that come round for DS...

On reflection I think is is quite likely.

I have always told my DD that she and women as a whole are the equal of men.

Perhaps more importantly, I used to tell my DS the same.

my dp has certainly become a lot more feminist since our daughter, I think he sees the issues as a lot more serious than he ever needed to before.

Certainly my FIL (father of boys) is far more sexist than my Dad (father of girls). I don't mean outwardly sexist but his unconscious, inherent assumptions are often sexist.

To put the other side of the coin our male friends who only have daughters are far more of the "my daughter won't be dating until she's 35" attitude than men who have sons as well as daughters.

Can't disagree.

I see it with my DH and my friends.

We have two girls and my DH is always telling them to be whatever they want, encouraging them to get involved with changing tyres and oil etc (to the best of their ability at 3 and 6) and other typically male dominated tasks..

But my friends who have one of each typically say things like "you'll make a good wife one day" to their Dds

However my Dad has four girls and one day and is still a msyogonystic prick