Sexist conditioning starts young doesn't it?

I too was horrified to hear the stuff DS came out with after a few months at school. Not sure if he has grown out of it/less interested or just knows now to not mention it at home in case it starts me off in another rage lecture about how no colour 'belongs' to any particular group of people and he has a week of being given the one pink plate in the house to prove it :D

I'd agree with the above, sadly there are still idiots out there teaching their kids all this stuff before they even start school. Would also agree with above that as an older mum, I think sexism is more prevalent than when I was younger - any girl dressed all in pink and going to school in a princess dress would have been considered a bit extreme by most. There weren't any pink toys (basic things like the preschooler stacking cups) like there are now. I am glad I don't have a girl as I think it must be hard to navigate.

play with dolls and like Frozen.

You haven't lived until you've seen an out of tune 2 year old (of either sex) belting out let it go complete with twirls and dramatic arm movements.

Grimb!e I'm 28 and feel like it is worse than it was in my youth. I just hope Let Toys be Toys and Let Clothes be Clothes continue the good work as they are bringing about much needed change.

My nephew is very quiet and sensitive and likes 'pretty' things and his family (apart from his mum) hate it. His grandparents (dp's parents) tell him he can't have certain things; I've heard them discuss what a 'wuss' he is; his dad went mad recently because dneph showed an interest in the wrong thing. I feel so sorry for him. Dp's parents are always telling my 18month old "what a pretty girl" she is. If she has a temper tantrum it's because she's a "typical girl." She wanted my purse once "because she's a little girl". What does that even mean? Their compulsion to keep stating and reinforcing her sex is like a mental illness IMO. The worst is when mil goes on one of her rants about how little girls are "bitches" (ands fil agrees).

I've heard a few parents at groups I take dd to, talking about how boyish their sons are. How they only smile at women because they are boys; how much more physical they are than girls - in my experience of babies aged from 6 months to approx 2 years, there's no difference in how much they run about or how they behave but parents will see their boy doing a lot of running and comment on it. I genuinely spend a lot of time chasing my dd as she runs off all over the place, but it does not get the comments. I think comments about babies' 'flirting' are a bit sick too. They make my stomach heave a bit. Dp's parents always say my dd flirts with her granddad - "Typical girl. All the girl's like granddad." I always think, 'eww' and if any of these children turn out to be homosexual how will this talk of their flirting be explained?

Yup, my DD is 2 and has recently started telling me that girls are nice and boys are naughty / smelly. She certainly doesn't get that shit from us, and DH and I will continue to her about it every time it comes up!

"My mum has a pink and a blue high chair and putting our boy girl twins in "the wrong way" seems to ruffle quite a few feathers round the dinner table."

Whatever you do, don't put the boy in the pink chair, because then he will become gay and like pink and want to play with dolls and like Frozen.

The increasing sexualisation is hideous and dangerous for both genders as they grow up. Girls arent just here for the requirements of the other sex.

I actually saw baby booties with a stitched high heel on! Beam me up

Spanglecrab that's just brilliant :). Equality in action

My mum has a pink and a blue high chair and putting our boy girl twins in "the wrong way" seems to ruffle quite a few feathers round the dinner table.

'asserting' not 'exerting' - FFS iPhone.

As an older person OP I can tell you that the conditioning little ones are subjected to these days is worse than anything I experienced as a child, when you might have expected a much higher level of sexism, or that my own DCs (now in their 40s) experienced. I would like to believe that it cannot continue and common sense will return.

I find it an unfortunate time to be a child these days, but maybe that's my inner Victoria Meldrew exerting itself

However, if you just gently and consistently keep pointing out the ridiculousness of the prevailing sexism I'm sure the message will get through.

Most children are intelligent enough to (eventually) recognise stupidity when they see it.

I just cannot tell you have relieved I am to find like minds! Thank you thank you, lovely people

I just cannot tell you how relieved I am to find like minds! Thank you thank you, lovely people.

There is child psychology / development research which shows babes in arms are treated differently depending upon the type of clothes they are wearing. If the baby is wearing pink / frilly stuff, the baby is held close and spoken to softly. If wearing blue / more rugged clothes the baby is more likely to be held out and bounced around and talking is louder. So it starts at birth - we have to be on alert from the start

Within a month of starting nursery my previously disinterested daughter asked me to buy her a doll in a resigned tone, a few days later we were in town and I offered to get her one, she said no I don't really want one . It's odd as at that point I hadn't really thought a lot about feminism, but thinking back I did buy her a little doll and pushchair when she was a toddler, which she promptly set aside, but I mostly bought things like Lego and bricks just basically toys that looked interesting. She has never been a girly girl, I just wonder if that is her basic personality, or nurture

It's funny how children want to have rules in the world, and they'll cling to them rather than accept freedom. And adults often tend to go along with it!

So a little girl is willing to become a "boy" to avoid the limitations on being a "girl", but she won't take the attitude that everything's available to everyone. I'd be a bit grumpy about those female stars and angels, and male shepherds, too. At least they'll let a girl be a shepherd if she's apt to be stroppy.

There's a thesis waiting to be written on when and why angels went from being male to being female.

This is really interesting. I'm going through similar with my daughter. She loved Minecraft, dinosaurs, bugs and hates Disney princess and fairy stuff. All fine and all her choice but now she is at school she has discovered that all the stuff she likes is 'for boys' so she identifies and plays with the boys. All the girls consider her a 'boy' and I notice the teachers are lumping her in with the boys e.g the nativity, she was a shepherd with the boys and not an angel or a star with all the other girls.' It's driving me a bit insane so I know how you feel!

Yep you're right but well done for keeping this in check there's not many parents who do this and it's nice to hear about those who do

What fitzbilly said.

Op - you sound like wonderful parents, I'm sure your ds is going to turn out great.

What I was trying to say was it's not just social conditioning. it is a developmental phase as well, although what children chose to indicate their gender is defined by society.

You need to also remember that actually, at the age of 4, it is a very normal phase to need to be very gender specific. This is because for year old are not clear on gender permanence yet, in their minds the differences they see are the only differences, so putting on a dress makes you a girl for example, and four year olds don't want to change gender. They want to identify with the gender they are, and they want people to know which group they belong to. It is very interesting developmentally.

They grow out of it, especially with parenting like yours.

Both my boys within weeks of starting pre-school announced that "boys don't cry". Such a shame that this bull crap starts so early.

You have to take a chance - encourage little boys to be open-minded, but take the risk at the same time that they'll be shunned or be the subject of violence at school. Children are not political playthings, for either right or left.

My nephew started school in September and announced within a week that he didn't like his beloved Frozen anymore as it's for girls. He must have heard that at school.

DS has been the same since he started Primary 1. It's giving me the rage.

I think at this age it's definitely something they can grow out of or will quickly forget about it.
I was the girliest girl ever when I was that age. I think I wore a bright pink tutu for a week solid one time I played with barbies, baby dolls, a styling head etc. I wouldn't entertain the idea of playing with power rangers when my male cousins came over. But then one day Out of the blue, I wanted to play football, and asked for a GI Joe action figure for my birthday. My mum and dad never discouraged "boys toys" or encouraged "girls toys", they just let me choose whatever I wanted - and for some reason, I just decided on pink pink pink and played with other girls.
If he still thinks lads who take dance classes are "pansies" when he's a teenager, then I would think it was a problem, but not at 4yo.
(Your DH sounds like a fab dad btw! )