Would anyone be interested in a Feminist critique of The Big Bang Theory?

In total agreement with ICJump. It's provided a very entertaining afternoon and evening!

Exalted. That is far too a simplistic way to look at things I'm afraid. It ignores reality.

Every progressive movement in history has concentrated on the concerns of the groups that they believe to be left out by the current system.

Would you have told the civil rights movement of the 60s that they should be also campaigning for white people's rights?

Would you have expected the Chartists to also fight for the voting rights of the male landed gentry?

I suspect your position is more along the lines that gender inequality doesn't exist and nothing needs to be rectified.

This thread is about a million times funnier the tbbt. Thanks!

On the contrary, DoctorTwo, I am critical of every movement which claims to seek gender equality while only giving earnest consideration to the plights of one.

The evidence seems to be mounting for DoctorTwo's position.

I suspect we're going to be treated to much more of it on which to base a convincing argument of rectal behaviour.

Is that an evidence-based statement though doctor?

If it farts like an arse, if shit comes out of it like an arse, then, you know, the probabilities are it is an MRA. Troofact.

Anyone who hasn't watched Firefly should definitely check it out. Only 12/13 episodes and the option of a movie.

Wash and Zoe are definitely equals in my eyes.

"Some viewers just think that Zoe being strong and independent reflects badly on Wash"

I haven't seen that particular show do think there is a tendency in many shows to represent women as being always so strong and independent, of having all the answers whilst the male characters are the underdogs that you root for.

Also in terms of romance where the boy is chasing a girl out of his league. The hot girl is a prize for the under confident boy that you root for.

It's the whole "rational arguments" bollocks isn't it. Because peoples lives, the discrimination they face, their lived experiences even their opinions are only valid if considered so by some higher authority i.e. a man. And here he is saying patriarchy doesn't exist...

Rational arguments bollocks? This amuses me. Yes... how dare I demand logical and well reasoned responses from other people in a discussion. Oh, the humanity!

Besides, how does your inability to string together a cogent set of arguments evidence of a fictional patriarchy? Opinions are only as valid as the evidence and reasoning that supports them... this is true for all who choose to share their thoughts; regardless of their gender.

I'm a big fan of Joss Whedon but I do worry how other people perceive his shows. I saw a thing on youtube the other day about how Wash from Firefly was constantly emasculated by Zoe but I don't believe that's how it was written at all. Some viewers just think that Zoe being strong and independent reflects badly on Wash. That's a perception which is damaging to both genders, I think.

Is anybody watching Sherlock?

"Even when a show features numerous strong and admirable female characters, you still find a reason to be upset. "

Not at all. I would like the female characters to be 3 dimensional. I don't want all the female characters to be strong. It's not about being strong. It's about being complex.

Did you see Maggie Gyllenghel's (sp?) speech about that? It was very good.

The so called positive stereotypes for women in sitcoms have always felt patronising. It's as if the scriptwriters have cobbled them together so that they can't be accused of being sexist and as a trade off for the male characters being centre stage.

The absurdity of this statement baffles and amuses me in equal measure. Even when a show features numerous strong and admirable female characters, you still find a reason to be upset. Such is the extent of your hypersensitivity and bias that you have gone out of our way to interpret the situation in the most negative and cynical manner. In the process, you have distorted the intentions of the writers to fit in with your overly simplified and ridiculous world view.

[...] just reinforces the idea that women are in charge of the emotional caretaking rushing around in shrill and neurotic fashion looking after the men children who can get on with being funny."

What evidence is there of this in the show?

Exalted. You wanted someone to engage with you about the negative stereotypes relating to the male characters and I have. Will you respond to that?

The so called positive stereotypes for women in sitcoms have always felt patronising. It's as if the scriptwriters have cobbled them together so that they can't be accused of being sexist and as a trade off for the male characters being centre stage.

The absurdity of this statement baffles and amuses me in equal measure. Even when a show features numerous strong and admirable female characters, you still find a reason to be upset. Such is the extent of your hypersensitivity and bias that you have gone out of our way to interpret the situation in the most negative and cynical manner. In the process, you have distorted the intentions of the writers to fit in with overly simplified and ridiculous world view.

*[...] just reinforces the idea that women are in charge of the emotional caretaking rushing around in shrill and neurotic fashion looking after the men children who can get on with being funny."

What evidence is there of this in the show?

I really hope you talk like this in reality.

Indeed, I do.

That doesn't mean it's not reinforcing misogyny in light entertainment.

By that logic, the show also reinforces misandry through its repeated denigration of the male characters and their involvement with gaming/sci-fi subculture.

I enjoy BBT, or did enjoy the first two series, because all the stereotypes are played to, with wit and irony, excellent word play. It's multi layered.

I concur. Its brand of humour is intelligent as well as entertaining.

The so called positive stereotypes for women in sitcoms have always felt patronising.

It's as if the scriptwriters have cobbled them together so that they can't be accused of being sexist and as a trade off for the male characters being centre stage.

The over the top competence often makes the female characters unlikeable especially when they constantly put the men down. The "bumbling idiot" trope for the male characters makes them loveable and just reinforces the idea that women are in charge of the emotional caretaking rushing around in shrill and neurotic fashion looking after the men children who can get on with being funny.

And of course they still have to be hot. Bernadette and Howard FGS? Penny and Leonard? And of course Amy, the one female character that is clever and non pretty, has to be a closet lesbian.

The positive stereotypes are sometimes the worst because they're the hardest to untangle.

Duck, yes, brill scene.

Ah, but you are watching them from the side of not being a "nice guy". Me too though. We see them as cartoony. "Nice guys" see them as the same as them. They don't see that Leonard is only nice to Penny to have a shot at doing her rather than actually being a nice person. He is a "nice guy". "Nice guys" watching see a man following a woman round like a puppy, doing favours for her (just like they do) and then she overlooks him for a jerky muscle man instead (just like the women they follow around in their lives).

I've said before that I think it's almost impossible to write a truly feminist tv show or movie. Joss Whedon gives it a good try. Doesn't always get it right but certainly on the side of the angels. Hayao Miyazaki as well.

I did like the scenes between leonard and sheldon's mothers! Two fab actors playing the mothers.

Greentomato have you seen Gilmore Girls?

Telly addicts unite! MN telly addicts board is ofteb a good laugh.

I actually love TBBT. I work with someone who is scarily like Sheldon in the sense that everything that comes out of his mouth would be true and make sense if he was the centre of the universe (a bit like Exalted's speeches on this thread). So at that level I find it very funny.

But I can't help but agree with all the rational comments here about the misogyny. Howard is just an L-plate rapist. It's horrifying. Leonard wants women to solve all his problems (and is more than a little creepy and possessive) and the way pretty much all the women are portrayed is quite negative. Yes they are depicted as intelligent but they are still responsible for the emotional well being and lives of the men. Poor Bernadette having to teach Howard how to do fucking housework. He's a rocket scientist ffs. Housework isn't. He can bloody well work it out for himself except of course he thinks it's Bernadette's responsibility and he's just there to help.

I don't watch TBBT anymore. I think it lost the central premise of why it was funny. The 4 men were nice when it started, weren't they? (Maybe not Howard) However the more interactions with women they had the meaner they become.

I've said before that I think it's almost impossible to write a truly feminist tv show or movie. I think it would be ruined by our cultural bias. Looking at you Jurassic World.

Green Tomato - try Brooklyn 99? That's silly and funny, and not painfully sexist.