Would anyone be interested in a Feminist critique of The Big Bang Theory?

The comments are the most interesting part of that link, Pan. Bernadette's voice is a reference to her place on the spectrum.

Oops I clicked on this thread thinking the title related to the Big Bang meaning the start of the universe Theory.

I do love tbbt, although I'm aware it's far from perfect from a feminist perspective. Mostly I can just enjoy the show and not bother too much but there have been some episodes/ storylines that have made me very uncomfortable.

The episod where L&P pretend to be back together, and he keeps forcing kisses on her has already been mentioned, and as others have said, makes for very uncomfortable viewing.

Another is where L&P decided to spend time together as friends after their break up. Leonard basically spends the whole episode telling Penny that everything he said or did during their relationship was done purely to 'get' sex. He admits lying to her about his opinions just so she would sleep with him and it is portrayed as though sex was the only positive thing he got out of the relationship. This was with the woman he claimed to be in love with! I found the whole thing bizarre, particuarly as Leonard is supposed to be the 'nice guy.' Personally I would be very hurt if an ex told me that our entire relationship had been built solely on the premise of getting me to have sex with him, to the exten he was willing to lie and trick.

And yest to Howard and Raj spying on the next top model house and breaking their way in. Urgh

yes, thanks, interesting. the article does seem to be trying to shoe-horn TBBT into a trad. feminist-type analysis and it doesn't work very well. Lots of the aspects we've talked about here haven't we? From what I read in the comments there's also a bit of an unconvinced audience too.
BUT...yes the female characters do talk about the male ones quite a lot without the vice versa. And giving Bernadette such an annoying voice is odd.

The mums don't come out too well do they?

This is a reasonably interesting blogpost:

www.thefword.org.uk/2013/04/big_bang_theory/

Assumed that but it's now crystal PV!

I've realised my knowledge of Swift is purely form A level English so not entirely nuanced!

Sorry Pan, not don't get it, as in I'm too stupid to comprehend it, but I don't get it as in I don't pick up the same vibes.

Hope that clears that up for you

The poet Swift from 1600s was a dreadful misogynist. It's clearly possible to be a satirist and a misogynist.

I think comedy teams being mostly male doesn't help. Satirizing your own group is more likely to be biting, accurate and funny. Satirizing the 'other' is more likely to be insulting, two dimensional and not funny except to your group.

Amy - having thought, it is Amy who breaks up with Sheldon so is taking the 'emotional management' of that rel. Though it took 4(?) years to get round to doing it.

but the satire bit isn't to change any of the characters - it's a warning 'don't be a dick'.

and isn't it wandering into cliche re the women-emotions thing? Penny has the commitment phobia who reaches for a glass of something whenever there is any 'issue' and 'dates' a series of blokes who provide her no challenge. Bernie is not the 'emotional' type in any stereo-type world, and Amy.....crumbs. Not sure at all. I do like Raj's girlfriend, the one who is into horror. Now she's challenging and a bit hot too
Being 'nicer'? Maybe, but I don't think L. thinks that far - he's just grateful.

Characters getting stupider is a problem for a lot of shows. At the start penny was portrayed as having an average intellect. She seemed dumb compared to astrophysicists. When I stopped watching, just after Howard and Bernadette got married, she was definitely played as being below average intelligence. I'm sure it's lazy writing as you see it with Joey in Friends and Homer from The Simpson's. Both shows ran long enough that the jokes had to make them stupider and stupider.

I don't think the big bang theory is satire. It's quite a basic sitcom with a traditional set up. The audience is actually supposed to route for the couples to be together. The problem with Leonard, really, is that he's better than the low bar set by other people Penny has dated but that doesn't make his behaviour ok. And I think that some men do buy into that idea that if they're a little bit nicer than other men then they are entitled to romantic relationships with women.

Swift's ideas about satire were that it should show people what they're really like and then they should learn from that and stop it.... what point is it that TBBT is supposed to be making? Because to be honest, life continues just fine for Sheldon et al if they continue just as they are.

It's not about whether we're supposed to take the characters as role models (which I agree we are not) but rather that TBBT presents a world in which a man can be socially awkward but academic, successful, functioning, even attractive to the opposite sex - whilst women are in charge of emotions and shopping. Even the clever ones, if they're good at 'being a woman' - which Bernadette is, and Amy is not. The male characters talk about their work and their hobbies - the female characters talk about the male characters, largely.

What is it you don't get? You'd think that the characters are supposed to be looked up to and 'followed'? I would be exceedingly rare that such people are drawn with that purpose. Satire/pastiche and general mockery are always used to make a point, surely? The poet Swift from 1600s ( I think).See Alf Garnet from the 1960s? It only isn't allowed to work if it's taken purely on face value.

The writers/producers have always rejected that Sheldon is 'on the specrtrum' so they would have no difficulty with defending that they don't know what they are talking about.

And I'm not sure at all that Penny has been portrayed as becoming increasingly dim? But it would be difficult to measure unless we all sat down together and watched all gazillion episodes with note books.

I really don't get that at all Pan. In fact I get the complete opposite.

Penny has become much more stupid as the series have gone on, in an almost Baldrick fashion, and the last season I watched, we were definitely supposed to laugh at her and her inferior intellect. Amy's character has been written by a man who seems to think that you can't be beautiful and outrageously clever, and yes, we are supposed to laugh at her being rebuffed continuously by Sheldon, not because Sheldon understands that clever women can't be pretty, but because we're supposed to think that he's above those things, and he still isn't.

The premise could have been good. Geeks could have been cool and funny and interesting. Instead it's become a pantomime, complete with the ugly sister... it's horrible.

Also, the Sheldon character, if it is supposed to be a person on the spectrum, has been written by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. There's none of the nuance and gentle humour that's present along with the difficulties. They missed a trick there. Still, could be worse, could be like that fucking awful Derek programme.

"Learning difficulties" is an interesting term in the context of both TBBT and The Rosie Project.

I hated The Rosie Project. I just couldn't understand what she saw in him.

I've just skimmed read the sequel for a book club and he's still a dick.

At last, some common sense.

Isn't TBBT quite very much like other programmes, be it dramas/comedies/thrillers? For TBBT I am preeety sure the writers mean for us to laugh at the male characters, not with them. Not see them as role models to be aped, rather 'losers' with attitudes and values to be avoided. And there is so much comedy to be mined from Penny's put downs of the whole geekyness of it all ( she is portrayed as the sane, Joe and Mary Public one) and from the bromance of Raj and Howard. (though what the basis of Bernie and Howard's relationship has sneaked past me). The writing of Amy's character and the shit and beyond-reason patience she exhibits is questionable. Though the "It's a tiara!!" scene is gold. I used to love watching BBT until the last series which seems to have lost a lot of it's bite.

Rosie Project - I read that too - imho it didn't rip the piss out of people with learning difficulties at all. It (albeit kak-handedly) give an insight into some of the thinking process and struggles these people meet. It wasn't supposed to be a 'study'.

all obv imvho

Thanks!!

I do enjoy your contributions to this thread, VW.

For god sake a pocket Dave Grohl? I don't think so.

I'm sure they are both wonderful and handsome irl. Simon Helberg's Batman and Christopher Walken impressions are also a wonder to behold, plus he looks like a pocket Dave Grohl, which is nice.

It comes down to whether modern comedy evolves slowly out of the old or completely reinvents itself with due regard to rejecting all the basic tropes it's relied on before.

Jim Parsons is a most wonderful person as well.

John Gadalecki who plays Leonard is very handsome in real life

That is pretty much all i can add to this thread

Thank you