Santa - It's festive sexism

I've never really understood the whole Santa thing and can't say I've ever believed in it probably because all my presents came from my parents and family.

We don't really make a thing of it either as we see it as a time of giving to each other not some magical being bringing things if you behave. Also my youngest 5 is absolutely terrified of a strange man coming into the house to the point he started being naughty so he wouldn't come here. We have sorted it with him now but looking at it from his point of view it is a pretty scary idea really when else in the year would you be happy for a stranger to sneak into your house?

I'm not a Santa fan and I certainly understand the sentiments of the woman who wrote the article. I grew up in the rural American South, relatively privileged and very aware that we had more than a lot other people did. I was relieved when as a child I learned that Santa Claus was not real. I had figured out that the quality of Santa's gifts was directly proportionate to the relative prosperity of each child's family. This was reinforced by appeals at school and church for less fortunate children whom we should collect for so they would "have a Christmas." When I asked my mother about why Santa did not help the poor children, she told me the truth. I remember feeling only relief.

As a result, I downplayed Santa in our home. Like Lass we had a few stocking presents from Santa, but the rest came from us and other relatives. As soon as our children began to ask about Santa, we confirmed their skepticism with the truth.

It amazes me the extent to which otherwise rational people often go to preserve belief in Santa. On MN and in RL, I have heard people say it's child abuse not to encourage a belief in Santa. I also remember a thread where we were being asked not to refer to non-belief in Santa/FC in thread titles so that any over the shoulder tiny lurkers would not be let in on the truth.

As to the wifework part, for most of my life I have had jobs that get very busy at the end of the calendar year. As a result, DH did, and still does, most of the Christmas shopping.

www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-santa-claus/

It's Coke's own history but seems fairly accurate. Clement Moore's poem has a lot to answer for.

Hugh Jackson makes an awesome easter bunny

But i do agree with the whole santa thing being sexist

It does make me laugh when DH says "what have we left to do for christmas"

WE !!! Where did the fucking WE come from!!!!!

I think you are correct, the current form of Santa was a Coke invention and we are just as sheepish as those who hang out taking pictures by the Coca-Cola van for a tiny tin of Coke. Another Golden Calf.

Santa Claus was predates by the pagan Father Christmas, a version of the Green Man, and was more about bringing good cheer (ie the stuff for wassailing and feasting) than toys. Might be why booze is left out for him, and oranges and nuts feature in stockings, even though they're not exactly top of the modern treat food list.

Different societies had different rites associated with different celebrations, it seems to be becoming more homogeneous now, and more concentrated on a fat man delivering all the presents only to good children. Sad really.

Yes, that's one of the reasons I dislike Santa Claus. It is all commercial, there's a rumour he was invented by Coca Cola. Not sure that's completely true, but it would fit.

I have no idea whether there are Native American myths about winter solstice, but it's a shame all those many different cultures from Europe alone are all being eradicated in favour of the fat white man.

Hence the importance of Mary, especially in the Middle Ages... a time when Christianity was finally taking over from pagan belief systems. She became the embodiment of previous female mythologies albeit with deeply submissive overtones!

It's all Pagan anyway and about fecundity stories.

I think there seems to have been a lot more revering of female deities in distant history than there is now (ok, maybe worshipping their fertility is not that pro-female).
But if you look at ancient beliefs and myths there are many "good" female figures as well as many "bad" ones e.g. harpies, succubus, etc. Same for male ones.
In my opinion, Christianity (in the west) has sidelined "good" female mythical figures in favour of male ones.

The Easter Bunny should absolutely NOT be male. Unless male bunnies somehow produce baby bunnies. It's all Pagan anyway and about fecundity stories.

I'm not sure that there was the need to believe in Santa in Britain either, it was a nice story that we had, and he only ever filled stockings with little stuff, nuts and satsumas and stationery. The Santa as the only source of presents seems to be quite a new phenomenon. The Christingle/Christ-child filling your shoes with chocolate/money seems quite separate as well, even if he came on the Fest of St Nicholas.

Different societies had different rites associated with different celebrations, it seems to be becoming more homogeneous now, and more concentrated on a fat man delivering all the presents only to good children. Sad really.

I always wondered how children are supposed to believe that just because they are poor, this fictional figure will bring them fewer and cheaper presents.

The Santa-belief on Mumsnet took me by surprise - I cannot remember a time when I actually believed in such a figure. (Though where I am from, presents are brought by the more or less genderless Christ child, who is only very loosely related to Jesus and sometimes portrayed by women, and St. Nikolaus comes on the 6th of December to bring some token presents.)

It was always clear that my parents were behind it all, and my mother always was the one to give us a tiny present that "The Christ child has left on the doorstep" in advance, or show us where the Easter bunny had hidden some chocolate eggs.

It always was a big game of play pretend. My parents never explicitly told us, but they also didn't go to great lengths to hide it.

Back to topic: I think there are sexist reasons why both Santa and the Easter Bunny are depicted as male.
I have no problem with the original legend of St. Nikolaus, but Santa has zero to do with that.
And the Easter Bunny ... is completely fictional, for all I know, so there's no reason it should be male.

Interestingly, in Sweden, where there is a big celebration of Santa Lucia, like St. Nikolaus a historical Saint who probably existed somewhen, the fact that Lucia is always played by a girl is considered sexist and some allow boys to be casted for the role.

Yes about the elves but think that just reinforces it. With the exception of the wife figure females are really nowhere to be seen.

I don't see the point of Santa anyway. Kids don't need silly lies. DS doesn't really care where his chocolate is coming from as long as it's coming!

Derailing slightly but aren't the elves who toil away unpaid and unseen considered to be male?

totally agree with the post above that the pressure is on the create a perfect day and due to societal conventions the pressure disproportionalty falls on women to produce the goods.

Santa as behaviour control while women do all the actual work of creating Christmas magic is a fair assessment. I'd agree with the idea of him being a form of god-totem as well... omniscence of children's behaviour.

The really interesting one out of the 3 magical beings is the tooth fairy though. Money changing hands for protecting children's teeth from their use in witchcraft. Fascinating stuff!

Always makes me laugh slightly when the Easter Bunny is depicted as male though.

I agree with NeedaNameChange I don't see this as a sexist issue but a commercially induced panic spending spree. Goodness knows I enjoy shopping as much as anyone (well probably considerably more than most posters on this part of the forum) but when I want to.

So far as using Santa to control children's behaviour - does anyone really do that?

I've never quite "got" the magic of Santa really (although I remember him writing to us on most Christmasses explaining that we couldn't have X present but here was Y instead, so we must have "believed") -

Rationally I think of the character was shaped to control kids behaviour, in an echo of authority figures like God - and perhaps to make God/religion more accessible to kids too (you know, he sees you while you're sleeping and you can get rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad etc etc).

But yes it's definitely a form of sexism - I don't know how you'd get away from it really.

I could only think of three imaginary helpers: Santa, tooth-fairies and the Easter bunny. That seems close to sexual equality. Better than real life anyway.

but would their parents be pushing the whole santa idea in the first place?

Well they don't really need to given how much it will be promoted elsewhere.

to grow up to compete in the world of STEM where brilliant black boys like him are underrepresented and undervalued, I cannot muddy his logic and critical thinking by telling him it’s possible for one man to fly around the world to every single home
in one night*

Yes, I thought that was bollocks too. For someone who was criticising another woman for having no imagination and empathy the writer had little herself.

Just turn it on its head ... can you imagine a huge, special, 'magical' event involving lots of presents and excitement for children etc for which men do the majority of preparation - and then some jolly woman in a red suit gets all the credit?

Needed, I think it's probably a case of patriarchy meets capitalism..

Christmas has big commercial fest with more pressure on someone to arrange, cook, buy, wrap, etc etc. Thanks to the gender roles inherited by our patriarchal legacy that someone is usually, as evidenced by the numerous threads at the moment, a woman.

Isn't it a bit of fun and magic for small children though? I totally get that there will be millions of children who will have no presents because of their particular circumstances but would their parents be pushing the whole santa idea in the first place? You would have to be a serious shit to tell a young child that if they were good they'd get a gift from santa knowing you as the parent aren't buying them anything.

I just can't get on board santa being a feminist issue - yes Christmas in the west is predominantly arranged by women who are probably under appreciated and do feel pressureto pproduce the perfect day etc but is this a sexist issue or a capitalist commercial issue where we are all driven to spend our way to perfection?

I'm not trying to stir things, but am genuinely curious to understand where sexist behaviour and commercially induced panic start and stop.

You could say the same thing about God. My mum taught me more than anyone about empathy, compassion and doing unto others...

Yet we give the credit to an imaginary male and seem to think without his teachings we'd all descend into jungle like chaos.

The tooth Fairy is definitely a woman so that evens things out.

Gina Yashere did a piece on this on "Mock The Week" a while back - how they never had Father Christmas because there was no way her Nigerian mother was going to let a fat white man take credit for any part of the Christmas she'd arranged.