women's issues, always remember men are victims too

"I know a man who is in a financially abusive relationship. He could get out of it simply by getting off his ass and deciding that he wants to get out. He doesn't need a refuge because he owns a home, all he would have to do is to kick the woman out.

For men in abusive relationships, the most important thing is getting their emotions sorted out and have the will to get out. The risk to be killed after doing that approaches zero. (Except maybe for gay men)"

so the only thing that keeps women in abusive relationships is the risk of being killed?

Several people pointed out that there was also a race for prostate cancer, but this was totally ignored because they were hung up on the fact there was a thing for women and it was all so unfair on the poor men.

Men freely choose to not get the routine examinations for prostate cancer. To be honest, I wouldn't donate money for prostate cancer research - it seems wasteful, considering that many men don't even bother to get diagnosed.

Women dutifully have their vaginas prodded and breasts squeezed whenever they go to get a pill prescription. That's a whole different level of committment to cancer prevention there.

I am not sure of my exact view because I was emotionally abused by my ex so I would be biased.

I know a man who is in a financially abusive relationship. He could get out of it simply by getting off his ass and deciding that he wants to get out. He doesn't need a refuge because he owns a home, all he would have to do is to kick the woman out.

For men in abusive relationships, the most important thing is getting their emotions sorted out and have the will to get out. The risk to be killed after doing that approaches zero. (Except maybe for gay men)

This is the latest year of data here. Interestingly they have been far more explicit about the relationship of male victims compared to female victims in this edition:
Partner/ex-partner includes the subcategories 'spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend/girlfriend, ex-spouse/ex-cohabiting partner / exboyfriend / girlfriend, adulterous relationship, lover’s spouse or “emotional rival”'.

All but one of the female partner/ex-partner homicide victims were killed by a male suspect, whereas among men, around a third of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by a male suspect. The majority of these, 14 out of 21, were committed by the spouse of the victim’s lover or “emotional rival”.

Among other adult homicides, 95% of male and 89% of female victims aged 16 or over were killed by a male suspect

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_394478.pdf

As people have said we got off our butts and set up homes. The first set up by Erin Pizzey. Which makes it interesting when you now consider her current position on domestic violence. She showed intelligence and understanding to set up Haven House yet as her views developed on reciprocal violence she has become a pariah. Yet can we believe she became brain dead overnight? I am not sure of my exact view because I was emotionally abused by my ex so I would be biased.

Interestingly despite all of the pleas that men find it much harder to speak to anybody, the table for whether or not a person had reported abuse shows that there actually isn't much difference at all between male and female victims reporting abuse. Men report less often, but the difference is not very big.

I just read some of the comments on that article, FlorisApple

Sigh.

File is downloadable here, anyway, if anyone else is interested. I have to say I have a love for the ONS' open access to documents. Always sobering but fascinating, too. There are lots of interesting bits in this table.

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2012-13/rpt---chapter-2---homicide.html#tab-Circumstances-of-the-Homicides

It's strange and I don't really understand why these numbers are included in the stats for partner/ex partner violence - surely it should be counted as acquaintance.

It doesn't say how many of the women were killed by a "lover's spouse or emotional rival". I'm trawling through the Excel sheet but I should really go to bed...

A couple of years ago, I saw men on a male dominated forum complaining that the race for life was sexist because it focused on breast cancer, therefore they would refuse to donate for women they knew doing it. Several people pointed out that there was also a race for prostate cancer, but this was totally ignored because they were hung up on the fact there was a thing for women and it was all so unfair on the poor men.

It makes me a bit cross too. Those with the most privilege shout the loudest when they think it's being eroded.

The Guardian comments are the absolute fucking worst for this. Every single article about women's issues (or ostensible women's issues) is barraged with comments that are effectively: don;t forget men, men suffer too/worse/more often etc. etc. Just this morning I read this article: http://gu.com/p/4f65e?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other and the comments are ridiculous. I know I should just stop reading them, but I can't help myself, and it makes my blood boil!

So that's a serious misquote of statistics then, isn't it? A purposeful misquote to make it look as though women are (seriously if not equally) violent towards male partners when it's just not true.

Oh so this is the article my friend was banging on about on FB. Will just copy and paste my comment there. Do not have energy for this.

It's not that the 13 (or 19) male victims don't matter, of course, OF COURSE they matter just as much as female victims. But domestic violence is an EXTREMELY gendered issue, and it matters because it affects both perception and reality. Women's refuges are losing funding drastically, many have had to close. Outreach services which support women outside of the refuges are closing. Others (refuge and outreach) are being threatened because they don't take in male victims - these refuges which were set up and fought tooth and nail, by women, for women, in a time where relationship violence was seen as inevitable, and women didn't have as much political power as they have today. There are male refuges, and they stand empty, save for a few residents - of course nobody is arguing that they are unnecessary, but to devote more space to men (who typically have very different needs, and entirely different patterns of response to abusive relationships) and take it away from women while women are being turned away because there aren't enough spaces.... I can't. It is a tragedy and a failing on a massive scale, and that is why the focus on women.

I also felt that article was the same as what SPB is saying, TBH.

Also I did not include this because it was relating only to the comment made, but this makes for interesting reading. In particular:

All but one of the female partner/ex-partner homicide victims were killed by a male suspect, whereas among men, around a third of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by a male suspect. However, the category of partner/ex partner homicide includes homicides committed by the victim’s lover’s spouse or emotional rival (see definition above) and this was the case in the majority (14 out of 19) of these instances.

(Definition above: An emotional rival is defined as those instances where two persons come to know or meet each other through their association or knowledge of a third person, and where their emotional or sexual interest in this third person brings them into direct conflict with each other.)

Wording is confusing, but basically it means 14 out of 19, or 75% (not really a large enough sample to be consistent, but fuck, 75%) were not cases of DV at all, but just somebody who is vaguely related to the victim's partner.

Agree Dowager

And what especially annoys me is that lot easier for men to drive change in society than it is for women, as men still (on the whole) have more power, money, more of a voice and more political representation in society than women do.

So if men really were concerned about these things, they could change them.

Men equal footing.
I'm pleased to say I need no footing.

Why aren't they?

Because they're busy running the world and making most of the money.

Looking after people (and by people, we mean men, of course) is women's work.

Maybe next movember we should point out that women get cancer too.

In fairness I read that bbc article as showing the difference in stats - showing that men are less likely to suffer domestic abuse than women .
However, in principle I agree. Domestic abuse is an issue that primarily affects women (as the victims). Giving me equal footing on this issue is highly misleading

Typos galore - sorry.

If services are bad, perhaps because a predominantly women's issue is not being dealt with properly, that needs action. But so does the exclusion of victims from services based on their sex.

That these services exist is ONLY because women got off their arse and did something about an overwhelming problem.

If men are feeling excluded, they're absokue welcome to get off their arses, too.

Why aren't they? [

Well it looks like I've cross-posted with everyone!

Yes, it bothers me.

It bothers me because there seems to be an expectation that it's not only women's job to provide refuges/support for (say) women who suffer domestic violence , it's also women's job to provide that for male domestic violence victims.

Some people seem to think that feminism is a human rights activism by women.
The idea that it could be FOR women doesn't even seem to enter their minds.

I mean, really, those men have the chuzpe to demand that women pay for and organise a fight against men's problems - not only male violence against women, where feminists are already busy picking up the victims and donating work and money to help them, but problems men create for other men.

It is like they never grew up and expect that mum takes care of everything.

In tears watching this documentary. So so awful.

Im watching the prog on BBC2 and following the hashtag on Twitter and predictably a few "what about the menz" tweets have popped up.

This BBC documentary is so awful. So horrific and so important.
For anyone to say "Yeah, stop your moaning men are victims too" totally minimises and makes a mockery of the real and terrifying problem of male violence.

I read somewhere (no link sorry JGI) that in cases of domestic abuse, male numbers and female numbers are equal in terms if victim/perpetrator. But in cases of actual violence ABH, GBH and death the numbers of female victims greatly outweigh the numbers of male victims.

So you could say: Male victims of abuse are equal to female victims of abuse, but in cases leading to violence and death, female victims outweigh male victims to a staggering degree.