I just gave the amazon delivery man a little lecture on the meaning of 'Ms'

Actually I go by either Miss or Dr because of the cba thing too. I find many don't know Ms. I'm not that attached to titles. But if they ask, I always tell them Dr .

I'm from NZ and we don't do titles. It's just first name basis for everything.

Grrrr, I hate being Mrs Cedric Rabbit. Cross 'em off the Christmas card list!

It's all so daft isn't it - if we're not sure of surnames we just put 'Laura and Napoleon' on the envelope. I so rarely get addressed by my surname the days anyway - usually it's straight in to 'Sea'. And I never give my name as 'Ms Rabbit', I always give 'Sea Rabbit'

We got a card this morning addressed to Mr and Mrs DHfirstnameinitial Mysurname. It really does throw the more traditionally minded into a spin - gosh, I know she hasn't changed her name, so how do we write Mr and Mrs on the card?!

What has annoyed me this last few days is...

I have applied for something quite huge for me. On the application they ask for preferred title... Ms and then later on marital status... married. All fine and dandy.

This morning I have received an email addressed to Mrs Others from one of the parties involved.

If they're not going to respect my choices in this, how can I expect them to respect anything else?

Perhaps I should just say 'No'.

Except I then had a James Bond moment, and thought that 'Dr No' might not be totally appropriate..........

......plus I haven't got my secret nuclear reactor and underground lair quite sorted yet, still waiting for a few bits from amazon, oddly enough...............

A colleague of mine used to use a "Starbucks name" because his was too hard to spell and he CBA to have to spell it out. Until he used it at an airport coffee shop, went on through passport control, complete with coffee, and the passport guy said "why is the name on your coffee different from the name on your passport?"

Dyke Try "taxpayer" given the coffeeshop in question is well known for paying little if no corporation tax.

Yes, either 'some dyke' or 'Napoleon' would be classic.

somedyke

Please use 'some dyke' in the coffee shop

would just using names really be so hard

Actually, I get really annoyed in my local famous-name coffeeshop when they demand to know my first name to scribble on a mug! That name is for people who know me, not any idiot in the street or in a shop.

We could use just surnames, but then it would sound like we were all living in a second-rank boys public school............

So works for me if we have two names, the surname+title which is usually enough to identify you uniquely in a group, even a family group, and then the first name for people who actually know you. I don't wantb strangers knowing my full name, it just feels wrong and far too intimate. You don't know me, so don't call me that! I'll have to invent a fake one for the coffeeshop, it really does annoy me..................Napoleon perhaps?

No one expects gay couples to change names
Weirdly enough they do, but most people only asked the question after we had converted our civil partnership to a marriage! Apparently civil partnership/gay marriage didn't set off the 'change name' alarm for most people. But a 'real' marriage did!

Also confuses people since they don't quite know which name they thought we should take! Combining didn't work (we had unfortunate combinations whichever way round), double-barrelled sounds pretentious. What, should we just swap? Would confuse relatives, let alone anyone else!

....and finally then I needed wanted to keep my unmarried name because otherwise my academic citations get complicated.

Which brings us back to Ms (and the sex question), I'll admit I now mightily enjoy the use of Dr, since it indicates neither my sex nor my marital status (except in germany where Frau Doktor used to be the correct form of address). Although I did once get left at the side of a road by a rental agent because they admitted they didn't think I could be the Dr.

I'm surprised that so many people men are confused by Ms, when I was younger it was already old hat. But 'Miss' for teachers was still obligatory, whether married or with a doctorate................

I remember years ago, trying to order clothes from Blooming Marvellous, about 2001 (?) and they only had Miss, Mrs, Mr & Dr. I rang up and gave out to them. Told them I couldn't order from them. A pregnant Ms just couldn't happen.

Yep I've had this for years too.
One of my favourite responses in shops when they ask is to ask which title gives me the discount as there must be an economical reason why they're asking. It confuses them until I have to explain it is Ms.

This drives me mad too, still can't quite understand why we even need categorical titles in this day and age - would just using names really be so hard - ie, you get a letter to B Smith rather than Mr or Mrs Smith? Might be a slight problem for referring to teachers but apart from that would be much more sensible. Or my personal favourite would be ditch the whole 'married/unmarried' categorisation and switch to the continental idea of referring to gender - we could call men Sir and women Lady which would sound brilliant and would annoy the country toffs too, win-win! Then everyone just has to decide which gender they're going with (having more than 2 options is fine though) and it's sorted, no questions of marital status needed.

Well, if someone's being falsely matey in a business letter then it's even better - it's a clear signal of tone to use their title or use their first name that actually I think is quite handy given the lack of face to face-ness to convey your feelings on the matter non-verbally.

Like women are still being categorised.

But mostly straight women who marry. No one expects gay couples to change names, or men in straight relationships, yest straight women.

BTW I'm a supply teacher, in colleges I'm known mby my first name but I am increasingly working in secondary schools. Obviously kids want to know my name and that leads to a debate on why I'm Ms not Miss or Mrs.

I might try Mx with them sometime.

I am toying with adopting Mx
And look manly enough to cause doubt, I think
M

I exaggerated. I'm asked to justify the use of Ms regularly, but it can sometimes feel like almost daily.

VestalVirgin wrote - "Ms is so difficult to pronounce."

Making Ms sound different to Miss is not the easiest thing in the English language. Miss is easy - we can just say the whole word that has a simple sound with no hidden vowels to improvise. But for the sound of Ms we have to consider if we should insert a breath or a short 'i' between 'M' and 's', and should the 's' be 's' or 'z', and should it be 'miz' or 'mizzzzzzzzzzz', etc.

Mr and Mrs would be more difficult to pronounce if they were pronounced on the same basis as Ms. I suppose Mr would sound something like 'mir' and Mrs like 'mirss'. But, of course, that isn't the case because Mr is pronounced as 'mister', derived from master, and it's the word rather than its abbreviation that is spoken. Similarly for Mrs with its pronunciation like 'missis', representing a shortening of mistress. A problem with titles for women is that Mrs, Miss and Ms all started as contractions of mistress, and it seems that there just aren't enough easily pronounceable variations on mistress to go around.

I like the title Ms. and I use it for myself, even though I'm sick and tired of being asked to justify it to other people, on an almost daily basis.

I also ask people who query the Ms signatory..why, if it is necessary to indicate a woman's marital status is it not necessary to indicate a man's, and conversely, why if it is not necessary to indicate a man's marital status is it necessary to indicate a woman's?

They usually don't answer. Because there is no logical answer.

Frankly. I tend not to be quite as polite as the OP. I once had quite a heated conversation in the bank when I insisted on Ms. Finally I asked the young gentleman in question why he thought it was so necessary for the bank to know my sexual availability. The implication of course is Miss = not married and therefore available on the marriage market.

This floored him somewhat.

I suppose the question can be asked then
surely it is sexist to address someone as
Mr
or as
Ms
We are all people
why should people have information as to our gender?

I did change my name (it was 20 years ago, I mildly regret it and wouldn't now) but still opt for Ms Marriedname because I see no reason why random-recipient-of-form needs to know my marital status. I have explained this so many times to so many people, some of whom get it (including my 9yo DD who concluded that she would opt to keep her own name if she got married) and others really, really don't.

The people it really confuses are my continental European colleagues, where you seem to change from Melle to Mme, or Fräulein to Frau, automatically at some age and it is therefore not a reliable indication of marital status anyway.