Islamaphobia?

Côte, if you want posters to engage with you, it helps if you are less rude to them.

You are right slug, it's not different.

I'm an atheist. I think Jesus was a historic figure and I do love science more than Jesus

And I'm educated enough (by Buffy amongst others) to know that repeatable, objective experiments are only the favoured methodology for finding truth. Lived experience and the reasons why people think/believe/disbelieve how they do also matter.

You don't have to use the word "wrong". People are telling you that an atheist is simply someone who doesn't buy into the God story so it is a lack of belief, and you keep telling them that your view is that it is a belief system.

Lack of food isn't a meal, not having a hobby isn't a hobby in itself, lack of academic qualifications is not a degree, and lack of belief is not a belief system.

Can you please give a sign that you understand this so we can move on?

I didn't say you did.

Do you read my posts before you reply to them?

Like Bertrand, I would like to understand why you don't seem to be interested when atheists explain what atheism is, and why you keep telling them that they are wrong, that atheism is a belief system.

I guess you thought I was being condescending Buffy but that wasn't the case.

Your posts on this tread show that you really don't understand what an atheist is. You really do need to understand what people mean when they say "I am an atheist" and forget your wrong assumptions about belief system built around evolution etc.

That the golden rule is based on kindness to others and not the glorification of the self is largely because of social construction based on centuries of religious teaching.

We may say do unto to others as they would do to you but what about when they are in a situation when they cant ever do unto you. not physically or materially able? the destitute, or the elderly, the infirm? the one whose mind has gone with dementia? its largely because we live in a Christian society that stopped disabled babies or cripples being left out in the cold, otherwise logically, and coldly, we wouldnt use up resources on those that cannot put back into the collective pot. its this idea that every human life has value that the message of Jesus picked up so many followers in Europe in the early days before Christianity became the main religion.

Likewise, in Islam the idea that a Creator God stands as surety over each human being, either to reward for doing good between each other or to avenge for bad done between each other, this made trust grow between large groups of strangers from different tribes, ethnicities, family groups etc. it wasnt uncommon then as now to join the religion for the social network - having a larger group of people to share food and shelter with and watch your back and who can help you in difficult times. not based on blood or language ties but on rituals and belief in the One God, not just the poor, the weak, but lonely people, or people without the membership of a strong warrior tribe (then) or a rich noble family with lots of connections.

ok in the west we've largely scaled the ladder and kicked it away now because of large secular government that runs welfare and security but the progression of humanity from tight knit small hunter gatherer groups to the large anonymous and cooperative societies of today is because of religion. specifically, the organised religions with the 'Big Gods' that still exist today from the huge plethora of belief systems in the past. as cote put it, the idea of a "creator God who checks on you to see if you're good and will put you in heaven after death if you just believe", omniscient - knowing all, omnipresent - always there, and omnipotent - having unlimited power - which many scoff at now, helped to ensure cooperation between constantly expanding groups.

Buffy - re "how atheism is understood, it's role in our culture."

You mean how you have misunderstood whaatheism is and continue to do.

"A pp said this: An anthropologist looking from outside might well describe these as a system of belief... In that sense, I think it might be fair to describe atheism as part of a system of belief."

An atheist is simply someone who says "Your God story makes no sense, so I'm not buying it". It is an absence if belief. Whoever you are quoting is wrong, as so are you.

"Your conviction of absence, absence of belief?"

Does that even make sense to you?

I really think you need to read & learn a bit about the concepts & arguments of various atheists. You are coming from a position of ignorance and making assumptions that are false.

"if you were to ask an atheist to explain why they do not believe in God, there would be an explanation."

Yes, that there is not a shred of evidence to warrant belief in a God.

It is not a belief system to recognize that the Emperir has no clothes. It is not a belief system to say "Your story is ludicrous and you have no proof, so I'm not believing it".

"the motivation that drives some to belief in a supernatural being is natural"

The motivation to understand the unknown is natural. Belief in a complex and convoluted story that involves a creator God with feelings and motivations of Earthling mammals (like good, evil, compassion, love for others, love of a son, etc) is not "natural" but taught through passive and active measures from very early ages.

".. also is the same as that which drives others to be all Brian Coxy and starry eyed about the beauty and complexity of science."

I have no idea what you might mean here. Are you trying to say that people believe in science and have love for science the way people say they believe in and love Jesus? That sounds mad.

"Mary don't you weep, and tell your sister Martha not to moan'.

to me it spoke of not becoming depressed or constantly complaining but to hold one's head up and have hope and faith that things will change. as a feminist agitating for reform in my own faith community those words are very inspiring, though i do not know the biblical story of Mary and Martha"

It's not, I'm afraid. It's just Jesus' saying what would be expressed a lfew books further on as as "Woman, know thy place"

Why should atheists or theists "get respect"?

"I've always been a sceptic too, but rather than wanting to 'make people see' I'm always fascinated to understand their faith"

You don't sound like a sceptic tbh and neither have you spent much time thinking & researching these subjects from what I see on this thread. Which is fine, you just need to read & think more about it and understand better the basic concepts involved, such as what is an atheist, what is evidence, what is proof, what is the scientific method, etc.

"I'm just really interested in how people see the world, I suppose"

Yes, it's fascinating until you realize religious belief involves suspension of disbelief

" I might be wrong. "

Yes, when you make a claim, that claim might be wrong.

However, when assess someone else's claim and say "You have no evidence so I'm not buying it", that's not an unreasonable decision.

"Not many people are comfortable with the idea that they're just a blob of cells on a rock that exists by cosmic accident"

Because people want to think they are as unique and special as they feel. Unfortunately for them, wishful thinking is not a great way to understand the universe.

Athiests don't get as much respect?!? You must be joking......

Yes I do feel that atheists don't get as much respect as religious people for their views which is a tad unfair as they are the ones ultimately in the right

Well yes quite Côte I didn't mean everyone has an urge to believe in a higher meaning but just that the motivation that drives some to belief in a supernatural being is natural and also is the same as that which drives others to be all Brian Coxy and starry eyed about the beauty and complexity of science.

Personally I'm too old to be starry eyed about anything although I do get a bit excited about Mathsy things in general because it seems so ordered.

"I've always been a sceptic too, but rather than wanting to 'make people see' I'm always fascinated to understand their faith*. I'm just really interested in how people see the world, I suppose. And my scepticism also extends to myself: I might be wrong"

Can I ask, with the greatest of respect, why you don't seem to be interested when atheists explain their atheism to you, and why you keep telling them that they are wrong, that atheism is a belief system?

"But again, I think it depends what you mean by a higher meaning. Not many people are comfortable with the idea that they're just a blob of cells on a rock that exists by cosmic accident, so nothing they do matters "

Of course what we do matters. Do we not think about future generations? About the people sharing the world with us now? About the lives we are living now?