Islamaphobia?

For me, spiritualism specifically means contacting spirits and that sort of thing. So perfectly compatible with atheism. If bonkers. But sadly being an atheist does not protect you from being bonkers!

Just to clarify. The spirit thing is not in the context of ghost or evil spirit.

Doesn't spirit, spiritual and spiritualism go hand in hand?

In simple terms.

Spirits= soul or what lives on beyond the body

Spiritual= the ways of the belief system you aline with.

Spiritualism= the process and practise.

Or am I missing something crucial here?

"Laurief the fact that a spiritualist can be an atheist is disturbing in its own right"

Do you mean "spiritualist"- or was that a typo?

Spiritualism and belief systems are not the same thing. Am sure you can a belief system without without being spiritual.

The best example is when people describe Americanism as a belief system but nothing spiritual.

The Americanism in this is more about the behaviour of the people, their social value and nothing to with when they die or who created them, or how they came into being.

Slug
I had a conversation with a catholic friend where she implied that atheists were selfish and had no morals or principles to guide them, as why does it matter, when you are dead you're dead. I think what you're implying about spiritualism is similar although not as extreme.
I think you can have moral principles and even spiritual beliefs without believing in god(s).**
**
This is not my line of thinking. I think it's all in the definition and understanding of the words such as spiritualism and afterlife and what happens.
Am not looking at it I terms of morals as I always think things like that are all relative and it's part of human emulation or development. Part of learning from history and self regulating.

My whole issue is the fact that they believe in something beyond the human body even though there is no scientific or any kind of proof.

The Buddhist way of thinking for me is not very different to Plato. They may have different names but so much ring alarm bells for me. It's that search for perfection that most people can't get in real life so they assume that something is beyond this world and everybody has to achieve that greatness.

That does not make them atheist.

How much harder to act ethically when there's not even heaven to look forward to.

the fact that a spiritualist can be an atheist is disturbing in its own right

For me, this statement is a good example of what Buffy was talking about in this thread.

slug : I knew a Catholic who spluttered I was utterly selfish with no moral code when I said that I was atheist. This was interesting as I try to be thoughtful of others and am law abiding whilst he was an irritatingly selfish drug-addled petty criminal. We were both judging like crazy of course!

Laurief the fact that a spiritualist can be an atheist is disturbing in its own right.

Cote, I hope I could strangle it. Bury it six feet under and never to be discussed. Sadly, it's one of those things that us as humans have got the hunger to know and understand.

And thanks for that example of the caliphs. You hear it being talked a lot about. I assume they were the same as the head of al Qaeda or something.

Debbriana - you can have secular jews, christians, buddhists… any religion.

I guess what you are struggling with is the idea that spiritual buddhism has any more merit than theism, which is completely understandable but is a different point.

Thanks for making it clear Cote.

"I really want to ask what it would mean for a "God story" to "make sense" "

I heard the story and it's nonsense imo. Is that clearer?

"I think I will strangle with the idea that you can be a Buddhist and an atheist"

Please don't strangle any ideas

I don't quite follow what you are struggling with here. Many Buddhists are indeed atheists. They are spiritual, but still atheists. Gautama Buddha said there was no" creator deity". There is something called "secular Buddhism".

"Are they (caliphs) not Muslim leaders who took over from Muhammad ?"

Caliph would be like the Pope: leader of all Muslims in the world. The whole institution ceased to exist when it was abolished as the Ottoman Empire collapsed and Turkey was founded. There is no such position now.

Imagine if the Catholic Church imploded, Vatican razed to the ground and absorbed into Italy, the position of Pope abolished, and there was no Pope for two generations. What would the Christian world think/do if the head of a homicidal fringe group declared himself the new Pope?

That's exactly what the Muslim world thinks about the self-declared "Caliph" in Syria.

Don't be ridiculous redbinneo You know perfectly well I support neither.

Laurief, Sure - you can believe in karma, rebirth, nirvana etc. and not think of these concepts as deities and so retain your atheism.

thanks. I have been about thinking about that. It means you have got to have something that exist outside of the body when you die in order for you to be reincarnated.

I think I will strangle with the idea that you can be a Buddhist and an atheist.

I just think you can be an atheist Buddhist

Sure - you can believe in karma, rebirth, nirvana etc. and not think of these concepts as deities and so retain your atheism.

Am going to do a bit of reading on this.

I'm not entirely following your post above but Buddhism doesn't have a god/gods. Its not really a religion in the traditional sense but more a set of principles. I don't think Buddhism is incompatible with atheism. Atheists do have morals, values and principles to live by even if they don't believe in god.

What your also forgetting is the fact that they have someone to look to for guidance. The the Buddha sometimes called upon. To me that gives them more power than the human being.

Can a person who practice the religion get the same status as the Buddha if they work hard enough? The one who was the first of all.

Or was the original Buddha special sort of person?

slug - I was simply commenting on the fact that I am seeing an atheist friend go through a religious conversion and getting quite absorbed in it to the detriment of close relationships but, as there is no deity etc. it's quite difficult to criticise or to express what it is that is making loved ones so concerned.

I think there are existential beliefs involved in Buddhism and a set of 'principles' and practices that need to be followed to reach something or a destination - the existence of which is unverifiable - and so you need to have faith that by following these practices, adhering to these principles, following this path, leading the 'right' life etc. etc. you will get there… sounds pretty familiar…