Islamaphobia?

Lass, I am hoping as this is the feminist section and the OP is largely about her writings, that the evangelical atheist we are discussing is Ayaan Hirsi Ali!

Evangelical atheists- that would be Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens?

Almond your reply is patriarchal in its approach.

'So as atheist parents would you be happy for your child to join a religion?'

I suspect many, if not most, atheist parents are religious, given Buddhists and Taoists very often see themselves as atheists (as they don't have a creator god), and there are atheist forms of Hinduism and Christianity also.

The opposite of an atheist is a theist.
The opposite of religious is irreligious.
Atheist and religious are not two mutually exclusive categories.

Well I don't have any religion, I was raised a Catholic, and stopped.

I thought I was an Atheist, because I don't believe in organised religions, nor do I believe in God or Gods - though I do like to remember the Roman and Greek Gods simply for crosswords.

However, I can't stand the evangelicalism of Atheists and so have decided to stop having anything.

As a human, I have a brain, knowledge and empathy. I know right from wrong. I see equality and inequality -sadly mostly the latter.

None of my children are religious and all say they dislike Atheism as well - they are gamers.

'Atheism is like a religion with some people, in that you're either with us or against us. It's a view that is paternalistic. It's also misogynistic. Hence the similarities with religions.'

The view that you are either with us or against us is one that can be applied to any belief whatsoever. I could apply that line of thinking and say that being a vegetarian is the same as being a Freemason.

What you are essentially saying is that any belief can be turned into an ingroup/outgroup situation, which is indeed the case, but that doesn't make atheism like a religion anymore than it makes atheism like a football club, academia, the KKK or being a fan of One Direction.

Atheism and theism are both very poor candidates for being an ingroup/outgroup dynamic, because atheists have almost nothing in common with each other, and theists have nothing in common with each other, because neither thing has an organised set of beliefs or rules around it.

Specific organised religions, on the other hand, very much do have a set of cultural practices, beliefs, ethics, roles and rules that are shared by very many adherents - perfect for creating ingroups and outgroups.

As for my children following a religion? I'd be surprised. If it were a liberal religion such as Scottish Episcopalian it would not bother me.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Of course there are many kind and generous Catholics and horrible atheists. That does not alter the fact Catholics are members of a church which denies women the right to control their fertility. Individual Catholics may choose to ignore it, doesn't change the Church's position.

I don't think actually if one supports the Catholic Church's views on contraception and abortion (other than on a personal level) it is possible to say one supports equality.

So as atheist parents would you be happy for your child to join a religion?

Last post! There are misogynistic women too in all the religious groups mentioned above, however, they do so to remain alive, because to drop the rose tinted glasses, veil, would expose them to what is really going on. Better to hide and conform.

Atheism is a statement of fact not an organisation or religion that you adhere to the tenets of. I don't believe in any god, therefore I am clearly an atheist. That's it. No rules to follow, no holy book to read, no meetings to attend.

Point me in the direction of a single atheist who has ever said my deeply held atheistic belief means that I have the right to tell you you may not have an abortion or sleep with whoever and how many people you want.

Or an atheist man who insists his wife wear a burka because that's what good atheists do.

There are people of all religions who believe in equality. They do not attend services, creed, read the books, whatever. And I stand by my belief that Atheism is a religion.

Atheism is like a religion with some people, in that you're either with us or against us. It's a view that is paternalistic. It's also misogynistic. Hence the similarities with religions.

Veiling of women has been a measure to subjugate women since the onset of patriarchy. It was introduced for a reason. Women were measured as livestock. Rape and plunder. Destroy and conquer.

And if they had a religion they wouldn't be?

I really don't see the relevance of saying some atheist men are horrible too.

There is no tenet of an organised atheist group holding as part of its core belief that abortion, sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is wrong and women have to go around covered from head to foot.

There is no such thing as an "atheist community" that includes all atheists. Atheists belong to mAny other communities and interest groups. There does seem to be, however, a particular group of sceptic/atheist intellectuals and commentators who are mind bogglingly misogynist...

The atheist community, I have heard, is also pretty misogynist

What is the "atheist community " ? I'm an atheist, I am not aware of being part of any community.

It's not a valid comparison. There are no "atheist community leaders " telling women to dress modestly, cover your face,not drive cars, not leave the house without a male relative , don't use contraception, don't have an abortion.

There may be individual male atheists who hold some or all of those views but they are not supported by a church framework to enforce them.

I agree with the OP to a certain extent because I've been threatened with violence and called racist because I've spoken out against what I view as sexist practices that are practised by some in the name of Islam (my careful wording there is an example of my fear of being misunderstood)

I'm also pretty vocal against Christianity's outdated sexism. The difference is, as OP points out, criticising one's own religion (in terms of what I was brought up with) feels more comfortable than criticisIng another person's which feels disrespectful and ignorant. And in the case of Islam, slightly scary.

If Islamophobia is a fear of Islam than I'd say I'm pretty much afraid of all Abrahamic religions. But it's important to be able to criticise religion without being accused of hating the people who follow the various religions, because let's face it, most people follow the religion they're born into and the customs that they've been brought up to be comfortable with.

People have issues with privatives. The absence of religion is not another religion.

'I dislike any religion that upholds the patriarchal viewpoint, that includes atheism btw. All seek to promote inequality.

Are there any religions that don't do this?'

Atheism isn't a religion. That would be like saying mysticism is a religion. Some atheists are adherents of a number of different religions and some are not.

That would be interesting Buffy.

Face covering is something else from a psychological POV. I struggle with that one.

Face covering puts women at risk from not only vitamine D deficiency, but car accidents and the like.

And it also erases the person, in a way, so yes, that's a difference.

I agree. I also think it's worth pointing out that there more things than religious belief that the people enacting these and the examples Vestal put forward have in common... They are male led. So maybe the problem isn't Islam or Christianity, but men.

That's my point.

Not saying that Islamic countries are not usually worse for women - just, it is by degree. Christianity is not inherently better. (and if you count Mormons as Christian, which I am not sure is valid, then they do some pretty horrid things, too)

The atheist community, I have heard, is also pretty misogynist.

Christianity was way less patriarchal in its early days, and allowed female priests, but then changed ... I think patriarchy will twist anything influential to its purposes, be it religion, science or something else.

Organised religion is a problem. It's organised by and for men. Whether it's burkas, or purity rings from the US; all shit. It is prejudice to single out Islam for criticism and ignore all other aspects of the patriarchy.

In an enlightened Western democracy I am expected to cover my chest and men aren't. I fail to see how hair is different in any real way to breasts.

Face covering is something else from a psychological POV. I struggle with that one.