Islamaphobia?

cba reading the thread but some Christians definitely practice fgm.

yes, Islam is patriarchal but women had rights in Islam before they did in non-Muslim societies.

not convinced that Islam is a rape culture - forced marriages are rape but are they Islamic? just because some of the people doing these things are Muslims doesn't mean it grows from the religion.

accepted paedophilia? young wives, you mean? again, culture not religion.
or do you mean the bad behaviour of uk paedophiles? criminality, not Islam.

"a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male" The Prophet? interesting perspective you have there. what if there is only one God?

Please do speak out - against injustice wherever you find it. you will find in the Qur'an the injunction
"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor...[Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 135] quoted from Islam Today. I'm not a Muslim and I don't read Arabic, so I can't be more accurate, sorry.

Yep. Normal person of faith behaviour."No, I don't recognise any of the bad things about my faith- that's not the real faith. Whi? people doing those things in the name of the faith? Oh yes, them. No, they aren't real Christians/Muskims/Jews/Dadfodilsorhaippers! Whatever makes you think they are?" It's all just weasel words"

OP:

Everything you have posted about Islam in your opening statement is factually incorrect. From what you have mentioned later on in your posts, your understanding of Islam is based on Ayan Hirsi's understanding of Islam. The majority of non-Muslim academics and theologians have not understood Islam to be the way you have portrayed it.

Moving on however, Islam is very open to criticism and debate, so to somehow suggest that you can't speak openly about what you have mentioned, is simply ludicrous. If some Muslims are offended by you calling their beloved prophet a paedophile for example, maybe you need to explore why? What does Muhammad the prophet mean to Muslims? Why is he so important to them?

What is worrying is when criticism of the Islamic faith turns into criticism of Muslims, the humans who choose to follow the faith. You also have to understand that there is huge diversify within Muslims. So where there is a small minority that may believe that men are the leaders of the family, these minority are also ignoring that the prophet himself used to work for his wife for example, and is a very famous that he told the men that the best of you in the eyes of the good, is the one who is best to his family.

The negative picture that Ayan Hirsi portrays and is depicted in this thread of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam is certainly not what non-Muslim theologians, academics and experts have understood and written about Islam. Ayan Hirsi and her friends are certainly the minority, and although I can see how extremely damaging and incorrect her narrative is, she has the right to voice her opinion.

Oh, and by the way, "islamaphobia" is just a made up word to allow muslims to fend off criticism of their particular mental disorder. christians are crucifying themselves for not thinking of it first.

Since islam nicked the koran from the torah, it's no great surprise that it treats women with the same contempt that judaism does. Avoid all religion, it's the only way to save your soul.

What on earth do you mean,Dione?

My atheist Jewish friend isn't a Zionist. Some of her family are. On the cutting bits of children, she did invite me to her son's bris but was understanding when I declined.

"I would feel that I had not encouraged their critical thinking enough. But it would of course be their choice."

That is the best post I have read on the internet today.

Interesting point made earlier by a friend:

We're not allowed to name the perpetrators of male violence, because NAMALT, but it seems fine and dandy to blame ALL muslims for the actions of a few.

The other point made was that the main group that gets the brunt of Islamophobia is women, mostly because idiots believe they are the more visible symbol of Islamic belief due to their being veiled. Little realising that there are other reasons women might be wearing the same headgear. The same idiots tend to also assume that all men with dark skin are muslim and treat them accordingly, however, that's less Islamophobia and more racism.

......but before I reform, my brother is a atheist Friend. There seems to be no conflict at all. Go for it!

Sorry, VV, I think that was my fault.

I will be gooder x100

@almondpudding: They do? Well, then I just have to work up the moral backbone to join! (I am not as good a person as I'd like to be. Still not vegan, for example.)

Is it just me or does it look like this thread got derailed? As interesting as the possibility of being an atheist Jew is, it doesn't have much to do with Islamophobia, does it?

"Except when they were Jews.

O-kayyyy."
No. Except when they identify themselves as "atheist Jews" as I said very clearly in my post.

Bertrand - I think you're a little obsessed by the Middle Est. You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist - there are and always have been loads of Christian Zionists. And what does solidarity have to do with it?

My experience is exactly the opposite of yours. It is atheist Jews who sign up to Jewish anti-Zionist groups that no practising Jew would touch with a barge pole. These are what Howard Jacobson refers to as "asajews".

The thing about being an atheist is that it really shouldn't have any expectations attached. All being an atheist is, is believing in one less God than Christians do. That's it. Nothing more.

Except when they were Jews.

O-kayyyy.

In my experience I said. The atheist Jews I know continue to call themselves Jews because they maintain their solidarity with the Zionist cause. Political Jews, if you will. I also know people who were Jews but now call themselves simply "atheists".

An atheist Jew is another word for Zionist?

Um, where on earth are you getting that from?

There are religious Jews who support the Jews having a homeland and there are religious Jews who don't. There are atheist Jews who support Jews having a homeland and there are atheist Jews who don't.

But I wouldn't want to be an atheist Jew (in my experience that's just another word for Zionist, anyway)

I want to be a mixture of Golde in Fiddler on the Roof and Jackie in Friday Night Dinner.

Sorry, Sam.

Mrs Pratchett - you can certainly be an atheist Jew, but I don't see the point of converting if you're already an atheist. There's nothing to stop you lighting candles or eating latkes on chanuka if you want, whether or not you are Jewish. I have certainly found synagogues very supportive, irrespective of beliefs, but of course I am one of "the tribe".

Absolutely. A subject upon which I have been very vocal in the past. But I also like going to choral evensong and Islamic architecture.

The ritual of cutting bits off babies without their consent isn't so wonderful though, Bertrand.

"I think there is definitely a strand of atheism that in reality is very misogynist, namely the evolutionary psychologists."
But that's not because they are atheists- it's because they are biological imperativists. Which does produce a misogynist world view. Atheism doesn't mKe you anything but a non believer in God or gods. It's the other stuff you think that makes you the person you are.

Are all evolutionary psychologists atheists? Interestingly my lecturer at Goldsmiths was a Christian. She was great and actually said at the end of one of her lectures, "I struggled with this as a Christian. If you are religious and want to talk to me about it, come after the lecture". She was awesome.

There were at least Christians, atheists and Hindus in the class.

I actually thought about looking into Judaism. My lovely friends are atheist Jews and I wondered if it was possible to convert whilst being an atheist. Because there are rituals, the synagogue which is incredibly supportive, people around for the important events in children's lives, and very good food. Quakers and Buddhists can be atheists too.

I wouldn't want DD to be religious. Because in almost all religions, women follow a hierarchy that they cannot be at the top of. I don't want her thinking that message is OK.

Are all evolutionary psychologists atheists?

And even if they were it's just a theory though isn't?

I've never actually come across an evolutionary psychologists. On the other people telling others something is wrong or right because their religion tells them so pop up all over the place, particularly in questions of social reform.

I don't recall evolutionary psychologists lobbying governments to oppose same sex marriage.

Re Ayaan Hirsi Ali I missed her name earlier on the thread and I don't think she is an evangelical atheist. I admire her.