Islamaphobia?

Slugs: if we limit scientific enquirer to reproducible phenomena then much of science is impossible.

And scientific method is completely inadequate to discuss ideas about how we know things (epistemology) or what existence is and what a fact is (ontology) - for these you need something outside science.

"It's often forgotten that atheism comes in many forms "

No it doesn't.

Atheists do. Atheism doesn't.

I agree that atheism in itself is not a belief system (though I find Ricky Gervais being wheeled out to reiterate it wearisome). But materialism, the idea that there is nothing in existence other than the material, empiricism, the idea that we can only know about the world through our senses, and scientism, the idea that only the investigative methods of science can give us true knowledge about the world - these certainly are belief systems.

It's often forgotten that atheism comes in many forms and has a long history. Many of the early Christian martyrs were condemned for being atheists because they did not believe in the Emperor-Gods of Rome. The current empiricist-materialist form of atheism is a historical phenomenon that has arisen since the eighteenth century and may well, as Buffy points out, be eclipsed by some paradigm shift we cannot yet see.

So, while it is true to say that atheism in itself does not constitute a belief system, the underlying ideas about why a person is an atheist, why belief in God is irrational and/or impossible, and what has replaced God in the person's thinking - all these do constitute a belief system.

It is currently an article of faith or many that science is a value-free and universal way of obtaining true knowledge and that it is superior to all other forms of knowledge - indeed, for many it is the only true form of knowledge. There's no evidence for any of this, and indeed most sensible scientists do not believe it. But it forms part of the dogma of popular materialist atheism.

I'll just leave this here...

It's no use, Hermione. It is impossible to explain to some people that atheism is not a belief system. Those people do seem to have acquired some unexpected allies, though, which is sad.

Science and evidence based research are not belief systems. They are the opposite.

Saying "I'm raising my kid Christian and if they convert to Islam I'd think I'd failed to teach them critical thinking" would be a nonsense.

Glad I offered some morning amusement.

I'd 'd think I'd failed somewhere in my children's education if they turned out to be UKIP supporters, or MRA or homeopaths too. Is that ironic too?

I would expect a Christian parent whose child decided to follow another faith or none would feel that they had not made the case for Christiantiy well enough. Is that ironic too?

I must be thick - I don't see the irony in saying that religious belief and critical thinking are incompatible.

It's not like she said "my child chose to support a valid but unproven scientific hypothesis in conflict to an equally valid but unproven hypothesis I support I wou,d question their critical thinking"

You don't see the irony in saying if your DC have a different belief to you it is due to their lack of critical thinking Bert?

Agree with theydontknow - how do the vast majority of Muslims behave? As homophobic misogynists. Can anyone name a single Muslim man who is an outspoken and tireless advocate for equality?

"With Islam I don't so I can only judge it based on the actions of its followers." Sorry to quote self bad protocol, but I just wanted to add that I do think that the vast majority of non Muslim British people are savvy enough to know that the evil actions of a few extremists get far more attention in the media than your regular everyday Muslim who is just getting on with life. We're not stupid.

"So where there is a small minority that may believe that men are the leaders of the family, these minority are also ignoring that the prophet himself used to work for his wife for example, and is a very famous that he told the men that the best of you in the eyes of the good, is the one who is best to his family"

Which just illustrates my point: religion is a set of man made rules and regulations which can be interpreted any which way by the people who follow it. But which group are we to believe? Those who killed people in Paris certainly thought they were following Islam yet we, non followers, are supposed to instantly recognise that no that's not real Islam?

The same goes for Christianity. If some guy is telling me that women shouldn't be leaders because Paul said so I'm gonna conclude that Christianity is a pile of sexist crap. The only difference is that, having been brought up with Christianity, I know enough (and feel comfortable enough) to argue that this is a misinterpretation. With Islam I don't so I can only judge it based on the actions of its followers.

And it's not "ludicrous" to feel that we are unable to critique it. Even at DS's school it is taught that Islam is a feminist religion of peace and whilst I agree with their aims (to dampen prejudice I assume) he does feel that he is not allowed to speak up against this view because one has to "respectful" of other faiths. I don't think that's critical thinking at all. Atheists have their views picked apart all the time so why should religion be exempt?