proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

Casualty,

Can I ask what your reasons are for disagreeing with the reason some patriarchal men have a hatred/disgust for prostitution is because of the independence it brings some women?

OK you may not, and for that thank you. But i don't know how often sex work or the topic of ittm comes up in your life but if it does you must be aware that there is a hefty stigma attached to prostitutes by many.
Just look at the comments I received questioning my mental health and autonomy on this thread

I don't believe there would be prostitution in a society where women were seen as fully human and fully equal.

There's no shortage of escorts in UK greentom

I do not stigmatise prostitutes any more than i stigmatise those who sell a kidney to feed their families.

I stigmatise those who buy kidneys and those who rent orifices to wank into.

Please understand this point.

Why?

"I believe this is partly because the patriarchy can't cope with the independence sex work brings to women. "

I profoundly disagree with you.

I have found that many men have a problem /dislike toward prostitution and prostitutes. I believe this is partly because the patriarchy can't cope with the independence sex work brings to women. This is the only arena in which women have all the control and have the ability to turn their life around in a second, it gets rid of any financial dependence a woman may have on a man. A quick read of this forum shows what an issue that is of women being unable to leave violent or bad partners due to financial constraints.
I dont think that's something to take away from women.

(Obviously not in relation to trafficking victims/coerced women )

How is me saying "I can accept that some people like yourself can't accept me or my choices" me not caring about forced prostitution?

OK you want change, I disagree with you wanting to abolish sex work, but putting differences aside ; of course men can go without paying for sex, but do you think that is going to happen? I just can't see it ever happening. The stigma around prostitutes is probably at an all time high for Western civilisation compared to past centuries, and prostitution is still alive and kicking.
So why not focus on what can be changed, and help trafficking victim'support without u necessarily taking away some women's last choice for feeding their kids?

Of course I want change!
My involvement in sex work is nothing to do with trafficking.

As I said

If us prostitutes weren't around there'd be a massive surge in demand that was being unfulfilled therefore traffickers would stand to make a far larger amount which would greatly increase trafficking.

Yes but do you really think that making sex work illegal is going to combat sexism?
Sex work gives many women independence and freedom which means for many they aren't vulnerable, and for many I've known it's enabled them to exit a violent relationship

So I'm not denying sex work is bound to have some influence on sexism (of course it does) but it also has many good points for women too.

It's like all the pro lifers situation in America, you may not agree with sex work/abortion but outside of working to give help to those in trouble (forced prostitution ) you really should respect others choices

Ahh. So the argument is that you're alright, you don't want to change, so sod the poverty stricken people forced into it - they should just get on with it.

That's not supported by the evidence though is it? Battery hens didn't go underground, there weren't secret drink and drive clubs, people just stopped doing it. I think men can stop paying for sex if it becomes socially unacceptable too.

From what I've read, trafficking in Germany is through the roof now that the German super brothels exist, because it's not a job like any other. Most people don't want to do it, so finding staff now that you've increased demand means that the criminals step in and supply it.

It doesn't really matter if anyone sees it as a viable job to be honest. Sex workers do, and I think most of us know there's always going to be extremists that deny this, I can accept that

I think that for every one person who is freely making the choice there are countless more that don't have the choice (through poverty or trafficking)

How many people freely choosing to be paid for sex is enough to warrant all the people who don't? All the women propositioned in the street because they happen to be unknowingly walking by a brothel? Or abused in clubs because some men get the attitude that women are there to be bought?

OK so as I said how abolishing sex work necessary?
There will still be demand which will encourage even greater trafficking as ordinary women won't want to break the law.
You don't crack a nut with a sledgehammer

So do you not see that prostitution and forced /coerced prostitution is different?

I don't agree - I think prostitution is legal in the UK because the patriarchy like being able to buy women's bodies.

There are plenty of things that I can't choose to be paid to do with my body.

I think we can change how society things - as people have said above, drink driving, battery hens, smacking children. I think that we can change whether it is socially acceptable to pay someone for sex, and I think we should.

SapphireStarfish wrote - "Prostitution is legal in the UK because my body=my choice."

That is not a reason why prostitution is legal in the UK.

Which comment?

What? That makes no sense, what have traffickers got to do with doctors?

SapphireStarfish wrote - "What if sex workers weren't around? there'd be a massive surge in demand that was being unfulfilled therefore traffickers would stand to make a far larger amount which would greatly increase trafficking."

There is a shortage of doctors and nurses. Do you expect traffickers to fill the demand?

Do you really believe that your comment describes prostitution as "just a job like any other"?

I don't think I said no one is entitled to an opinion. Simply that if you've no experience of something you've likely less knowledge on the matter.
I'd never tell a doctor or builder I know more about aspects of their industry

SapphireStarfish wrote - "you have no knowledge or experience at all", implying that other people should not be allowed to give their opinions and criticisms of the negative impacts that prostitution has on the lives of many women.

Why is the default position of people involved in prostitution to come onto anonymous internet forums and say this to other anonymous posters they know absolutely nothing about?

Would they say this to people they have never met, if they worked as e.g. a beautician? After all, according to these prostitution supporters, prostitute is "just a job like any other". If so, lots of people do have knowledge and experience of just-a-job-like-any-other type jobs that must, by definition, be transferable to discussions about prostitution, which can form the basis for valid opinions about allegedly just-like-any-other-job prostitution. Lots of people have knowledge and experience of those meetings with managers and those health and safety regulations that must be followed, which must of course also take up so much of every prostitute's working hours.

Or ... perhaps the reality is that prostitute is not just a job like any other, even if some prostitutes can't recognise and accept that.

Having no knowledge or experience of being a politician who campaigns for the introduction of the Swedish Model has never stopped pro-prostitution people from giving their negative opinions and criticisms of those politicians. Pimps, punters and prostitutes with no experience of the Swedish Model don't see their lack of experience of the model as a valid reason to stay silent about it.