Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

409 replies

weeonion · 30/11/2015 12:32

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

OP posts:
Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 22:43

Emnawinkl - I cant see where on this thread it was said that jean had only consulted with pimps or traffickers. Can you link please?

I agree that those who have experience of selling sex should be listened to in this debate. Isn't then ironic that no survivor organisations should have been consulted by jean. Again I wonder why she didn't?

OP posts:
Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 22:33

Hirples - surely women's orgs campaigned long and hard for the recognition of violence and abuse in relationships? Whilst it still happens, there has been attitudinal change and no longer do we frame it as just an interpersonal issue but a wider societal one. Funny that those same orgs would oppose the majority of jeans proposals, apart from decriminalising those who selll.

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 05/12/2015 22:09

I would agree there is a well planned out approach. I'd actually say there are two, one from the pro sexwork side, one from the antis. The arguments are well rehearsed, it's not the first time this this topic has been looked at, and no-one ever seems to change their mind anyway.

There's no Bill to campaign for/against as yet, and there might never be.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 05/12/2015 22:07

Laws are stupid. Humans have been murdering each other since the stone age, so why is murder illegal? Theft has been going on just as long. Just legalize all bad behaviour. Because of penguins also, I bet they do some suspicous shit

Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 22:05

Hirples -c'mon now. No campaign? Really? I think it is quite obvious that there is a well planned out approach.

Emmawinkl -you ask whatvis stopping women in prostitution having blogs and twitter - nothing in theory apart from time, resources, skills and intent. Most of the women in Edinburgh saunas aren't setting twitter alight.

Now - back to those links around arrests in NI etc. Have you been able to find them?

OP posts:
TheXxed · 05/12/2015 22:03

Yes!!! Put all men in internment camps, except my toddler DS, he is an adorable gorgeous Pudge of wonderfulness.

Ubik1 · 05/12/2015 22:03

But shouldn't we place more weight on the opinions of those who actually have experience selling sex since they will know best about how the law will affect them?

No

You consult, weigh the evidence and look st what is best for our society.

I don't think prostitutes should be criminalised. The people who purchase services should

grimbletart · 05/12/2015 22:00

emma seems to have a problem understanding that the risk to prostitutes comes from men. Perhaps she thinks it comes from penguins?

emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:59

Or we could always put men, boys and male babies into POW-like camps so they can't harm women at all?

Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 21:58

Emmawinkl - you said pimp lobby as you keep reading here. Is that referring to this thread or MN in general? I haven't seen anyone saying those words on this thread -"if so - could you link please?

I said the NSWP (aglobal organisation based in edinburgh) had a trafficker on their board of directors. she was convicted earlier this year with evidence from women she trafficked. Are you saying that is not true?

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 05/12/2015 21:57

You could equally well argue that all heterosexual relationships are inherently risky because of the nature of many of the men who engage in them. Two women a week are murdered by their partners/recent exes, after all. Should we outlaw them too? No dps/dhs, no danger.

TheXxed · 05/12/2015 21:57

Last time I checked it wasn't feminist murdering prostitutes.

emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:56

The day there are no clients, will be the day there are no humans left on earth.

Or penguins for that matter, penguins have been observed using rocks (they use to build nests) as currency (they are sometimes scarce) to buy sex. (don't believe me Google it)

Maybe we should also enforce some sort of law on penguins to stop female penguins being exploited like this by bad male penguins?

So yeah once there are no humans or penguins left on earth, that will be the day prostitution stops. No matter what law we implement, prostitution will continue until that day.

emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:53

yep, rule #1 of feminism always appears to be:

men= bad
women= victims of men

no matter what you are discussing with a feminist, it always comes down to that.

grimbletart · 05/12/2015 21:51

"No - men who buy sex make it unsafe."

Disagree. People who lobby for laws which criminalise prostitutes/sexworkers for working together or laws which result in sexworkers being evicted or laws which encourage raids

Bollocks. Prostitution of any kind in any place is inherently risky because of the nature of many of the men who use prostitutes. You may, or may not, make prostitution safer by tweaking the laws (that's up for debate) but the main danger remains the men who use prostitutes. Clients = danger. No clients = no danger.

emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:47

Well which "keyboard warriors" should we listen to? Those with experience selling sex, or those without experience selling sex.

Actually that was badly put, we should listen to everyone. But shouldn't we place more weight on the opinions of those who actually have experience selling sex since they will know best about how the law will affect them?

HirplesWithHaggis · 05/12/2015 21:46

No-one is "leading this campaign" atm, there is no campaign. It's a consultation and input from "keyboard warriors" who are sexworkers is as welcome as that from "keyboard warriors" whose knowledge of prostitution is entirely theoretical.

PlaysWellWithOthers · 05/12/2015 21:46

Just checking in to let everyone know that I've responded to the consultation.

Apparently we have to do that now.

PlaysWellWithOthers · 05/12/2015 21:43

Their pimps mostly, you utterly goady fucker.

emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:35

"many of the women in prostitution in scotland aren't the keyboard warriors with their own blogs and twitter accounts who are leading this campaign."

What's to stop women in prostitution signing up for a blog or twitter?

TheXxed · 05/12/2015 21:34

emmawinkl people travel for sex all the time, Thailand, Cambodia et al.

Again you are not looking at the root cause of this oppression but rather a manifestation.

Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 21:34

Emmawinkl - I believe changes need to happen but I don't see her proposals as the way ahead.

Now - you gonna share those links / evidence to your assertions upthread?

OP posts:
emmawinkI3 · 05/12/2015 21:34

"No - men who buy sex make it unsafe."

Disagree. People who lobby for laws which criminalise prostitutes/sexworkers for working together or laws which result in sexworkers being evicted or laws which encourage raids.

In other words, people who lobby for the swedish model.

Original poster
weeonion · 05/12/2015 21:32

Hirples - I said she hadn't consulted with them in developing these proposals. Of course the consultation process is open to all but lets face it, many of the women in prostitution in scotland aren't the keyboard warriors with their own blogs and twitter accounts who are leading this campaign.

OP posts:
grimbletart · 05/12/2015 21:28

Who makes it unsafe emmawinkl?"

emmawinkle: "People who lobby for unsafe laws"

No - men who buy sex make it unsafe.

Swipe left for the next trending thread