Why do men do this?

I wear overalls and a big warm hat on my walk to work. Not easy to tell my sex.

People move out of my way, no one stares me down to get me to move out of their path. As I thought about this, I realised 'people' was men. Women don't expect me to move for them when I'm dressed normally, we both make an allowance so we can pass. Men stare and expect you to budge.

Yy somedyke.

So, some men stare with sexual aggression at women and with other physical aggression at men they perceive to be weaker? Is that your nessage?

Men stare because they assume women accommodate. They don't stare at other men like that.

Can I just say that, ime, this is totally wrong. The average man that stares at women is just as likely to stare at other men too. Especially at men like me. They size you up, judge your masculinity and will often pass judgement and make comment. It's not the same as its not sexual, I want to say its with violence but not really violence? Almost like they look at a woman and judge if they could sleep with them but they look at men as if judging if they can fight them, does that make sense? It's different but similar and equally intimidating and upsetting.

I don't go to Wickes any more because of the average reaction I get. I get stuff delivered instead.

Dowager I exchange smiles with random people in the street too. I also let people out at difficult junctions when the traffic is heavy, I also stop my car to let people cross the road. I agree, it's because I see them as human beings.

I used to tell guys who did this to fuck off when I was a gobby teenager. I stopped after a group of guys took offence and stalked me down the road shouting I was a snob and a bitch.

Pretty intimidating, particularly as I was 15 and they were in their 20s

Shaking your head and giving them a telling off death-state is just as likely to result in them laughing at you, and there's nothing 'empowering' about that.

It comes down to a total lack of good manners on the part of these types of men.

I've stared back, rolled my eyes and shaken my head like a disciplinary teacher a couple of times, in reaction to street-man intimidation. It does undoubtedly regain your power.

But why should I need to regain my power? It shouldn't be taken from me in the first place!

I just walk past them completely ignoring them, which to my mind is better than giving them any reaction at all.

I do, actually, sometimes exchange smiles with random strangers in the street - men and women - for whatever reason; but predominantly because I caught their eye, and they were behaving like a normal human being. This is normal human interaction surely, and recognisably different from the, again, small subset of men who behave in a way that makes me (and clearly many other women) feel uncomfortable.

I have been a victim of DV, and I pretty much always smile in this kind of situation. As pp said, you regain some control.
If I'm walking past a group of men and they start shouting at me, I tend to just raise my eyebrows and shake my head. They don't think I'm intimidated by them and it's not enough of a reaction to satisfy them. They just look like idiots. I've had a few men apologise for their friends' behaviour when ive responded like this in the past.
I refuse to let men intimidate me with this kind of behaviour. Not that I think that's their aim most of the time

Just a reminder that it's not 'man-hating' to dislike men who act in an intimidating way.

It's 'intimidating-man-hating'. Which equates to disliking a small subset of men for the way they behave. Because - clearly - not all men behave like socially inept arseholes.

Reminds me of something that happened last night.

DS2 is just 2. He was standing next to me and we were discussing favourite colours - he asked DP what his favourite colour was. DP didn't answer quickly enough, so he wrinkled up his nose (his angry face) and said 'DADDY. WHAS YOUR FAVRIT !' DP wrinkled his nose back, bent down to talk to him and said in a normal voice (but with wrinkled nose) 'purple' - this went back and forth a couple of times, both with wrinkled noses but DP not loudly or genuinely angry - just copying DS's face, and then DS2 turned to me, very quietly and seriously, and said - 'I'm gonna punch him'

There was no anger, just looking in a certain way, and it escalated to DS2 feeling the need to assert himself aggressively. He's not an aggressive kid generally - he's pretty average - but if a 2 year old can detect that from a look and a wrinkled nose, I think a grown woman certainly can.

To those who are still sceptical about the power of the stare try going to the zoo and staring at the gorillas or monkeys. Direct eye contact IS a threat, and averting your eyes is a submissive behaviour. And THAT is what the men starring are waiting for for you to realise they ARE starring at you, and then to either smile, or avert your eyes, BOTH of which are submissive behaviours. Or you to totally avoid looking at them, or walk past pretending you haven't noticed............. It's as much a submissive gesture as a dog rolling on its back, and they get a kick out of it directly, plus the kudos of all their mates noticing.

Those of us with cats probably already know that staring is bad manners, and that making eye contact, and looking away is seen as a friendly gesture (well, as friendly as cats ever get!). And actually, our gaze detection system is very finely tuned - and also consider the fact that the white of human eyes is MUCH more prominent than in many other species - it means we CAN tell the difference very well between someone looking vaguely in our direction and someone looking AT us. It's a clear threat, and chaps know it is, whether it is down the pub looking for a fight, or the ritualised eye-widening in the haka.

I would not be surprised to find that the type of man who thinks he's entitled to a woman's smile and thinks the way to get one is by staring at her to the point she puts her head down and try's to walk past quickly, thinks he's entitled to other things from her and responds with verbal insults/threats or physical abuse when told to fuck off.

This.

And I also think the kind of man who complains about women complaining about this behaviour is likely behaving like this himself.

It's just the same entitled attitude. They want to threaten women, but they don't want to hear the truth about themselves.

I would not be surprised to find that the type of man who thinks he's entitled to a woman's smile and thinks the way to get one is by staring at her to the point she puts her head down and try's to walk past quickly, thinks he's entitled to other things from her and responds with verbal insults/threats or physical abuse when told to fuck off.

It's happened to me and plenty of other women.

The staring is intimidating, women can tell the difference between a hostile stare and a non threatening look, and I believe them when they say they feel threatened by the former. I wonder if the staring thing is more common because if they shout sexual comments they can get in trouble and possibly lose jobs now,whereas it's very hard to complain about them "looking" at you?

The face expresses lots of things, and in things like TV programmes and movies a hostile stare is translated by the viewer as a hostile stare, and nobody man or woman, suggests "oh he's waiting for a smile" they know the person doing it is an arse.

I know films are made up, but someone acting happy is usually like someone acting happy in real life, someone acting like a twat usually acts similar as someone being a twat irl. But excuses are made for latter to make the woman the twat for not being nice and smiling etc.

Thefitfatty, sorry, I'm getting mixed up with posters and threads, there's a similar one going on.

It's easier when it's in a busy street during daylight, than in a quiet office at work.

Actually Vulcan woman I did once ask two men who were fixing a sign outside a shop, why they were staring at me.
I was nearly assaulted as a result. Luckily for me I live in this area and my daughters dad I well known so some teenage hoodys intervened and they were told to leave the area.

If there was no one about there's no doubt In my mind I would have been assaulted.

Well, you haven't tried it have you, so how would you know.

That's a huge assumption on your part. FYI I've lived in the Middle East and South Korea for over 10 years, where staring at women is a way of life for many men. I've told them to F off and been rushed at, punched in the chest and the nice ones just yell at me.

Also, the last time I told a guy to F off for telling me to give him a smile in the UK he smacked me hard on the ass.

Well, you haven't tried it have you, so how would you know. They just make some other sarcastic comment, didn't get the smile though.

So these men who stop and stare are just waiting for a smile?
So do they all stop and stare at every man who walks past waiting for a smile? Do they fuck!
They like the reaction. Generally the woman keeps her head down avoiding eye contact.
I see it happen all the time. Then when the woman has passed they all start pissing themselves laughing.

In normal situations staring is seen as an act of aggression. In a pub if a mans staring at another man its assumed he's looking for a fight.

Ooh but if there staring a women we have to be nice and take it. Maybe flash a smile.

No, to tell them to F off, when they're hoping you will smile at them.

That's a dangerous game to play I'm afraid. The type of guy who stares at a woman like she's a piece of meat for his enjoyment, isn't the type of guy who likes to be told to fuck off.

No, to tell them to F off, when they're hoping you will smile at them.

You have the power, you just don't realise it.

No, I don't believe that's true. Men have the power in this scenario because if THEY decide they don't like your response to their stare, they have the power to say something to you, follow you, attack you, harass you.

Staring is very much a power thing on the part of men. It's meant as a way of sizing the woman up and intimidating her to get a desired response.

Don't be ridiculous. That's like saying that cakes in a bakery window have the power. Of course they don't.

The person staring has the power to not stare. The person being stared at has no power to make them stop.

If the person chooses to stop staring when the woman performs for them, then the power is still all theirs. The woman still has none, she can just hope to steer the interaction a little bit (and then be accused of leading the man on of course - because why else would she smile)