Why do men do this?

Exactly, fit - I don't walk around thinking every man is staring at me, and I haven't met a woman who does. We can tell the difference. If a man says another man was staring at him, trying to intimidate him we don't tell him he must have misunderstood, I just want the same trust that I can accurately recount events.

The thing that pisses me off is when, if you tell men about staring, they reply, "Oh, they're just admiring how you look, what's wrong with that?"

No sorry, staring is not admiring how I look, I'm not a moron I can tell the difference between a guy liking what he see's and a guy that is trying to mentally undress and rape me. I don't mind an appreciative glance, or a glance up and down, it's the STARE that makes me feel uncomfortable.

Exactly.

I got catcalled this morning by some guys in a van - beeping their horn and shouting stuff. I'm 9 months pregnant, I was assuming that I'd get a free pass on this stuff once I was visibly pregnant, but I've experienced about the same level of harassment as usual. I can't believe that many men are attracted to me - they obviously enjoy trying to make me feel uncomfortable.

I usually just find it amusing or act like I do, as laughing at them seems the best way to deal with it, but obviously I don't always feel like doing this.

I think there is a particular kind of fucking twat (great description) who tries to intimidate women and men, but there are also the ones who do it just to women, or at least do it to a lot more women than men. Otherwise the guys shouting at me this morning would also have been shouting stuff at the men.

Quite.

^Exactly

"I fully expect to be told that I'm imagining it or that I'm over sensitive, but the truth of the matter is that I am Not and I am NOT."
When I had some sympathetic male colleagues who couldn't quite believe it was as bad as I said it was, I suggested they walk several yards behind me. Then they could finally SEE that I wasn't over-reacting or making it up.

Given the videos available online now, and the overwhelming number of accounts from women, anyone ought to able to see that there is overwhelming evidence that women AREN'T over-reacting.

So I think it comes down to the usual responses:

1. Women tell lies
2. Women over-react
3. Even if true, there are BIGGER problems to worry about (and you should feel grateful someone noticed you at all................)

O, nearly forgot, of course we have the OTHER response:
4) Not ALL men....... (how dare you be so rude to not mention that! And how dare you ask if I challenge such behaviour when one of MY mates does it................)

Yes, it's dreadful how some of them are. Unless I think they are drunk or on drugs it's best to look at them or as someone said say Good morning. Don't let them think they can force you to look away or put your eyes down or anything else.

LockedBox

It was probably to stop his brain getting squeezed.

I know its only laterally connected but my Exw used to moan about how I sat, not because I spread my legs but because I'd cross my legs at the knee. Apparently that's the girls way and men should cross their legs with their ankle on their knee. made me lol for several minutes.

The reason these men have to site with their legs splayed is because they have such enormous cock and balls. I got on a train last night and sat opposite a man afflicted with HUGE SEXY PARTS which meant he couldn't possible sit in a way that that meant I had any leg room at all. Poor soul.

Hence why I said 'a lot' not all.

Building sites are much stricter with all that shite now thank goodness

their genitals in full-on DISPLAY MODE

This is vile, its usually just after they've plonked themselves down with force and a weird 'irgh' type noise, as if to say,
"Look at me everyone, I'm so unbelievably manly that you must know I'm here and all look at me"

I am almost perpetually surrounded by twattish men in that case, as something like being stared at, beeped by a car horn, told "You're lovely", having my personal space invaded on trains by men either splaying their legs so their thigh touches mine and forcing me into a little huddle or by sitting opposite me with their feet practically under my seat and their genitals in full-on DISPLAY MODE - One of these things happen to me almost every single day of my life.

I'm not sodding Angelina Jolie either. I'm just a normal looking woman IN MY FUCKING FORTIES.

I fully expect to be told that I'm imagining it or that I'm over sensitive, but the truth of the matter is that I am Not and I am NOT.

I think a lot of men turn into twats when they put on builders uniforms

I think sweeping generalisations help no one.

I think a lot of men turn into twats when they put on builders uniforms

I think that's a bit snobby and classist to be honest. Some builders are twats. most aren't. same as any other class of people. I worked on a building site briefly when I was a young man. My colleagues were one total bellend and half-a-dozen other lovely, gentle people.

I think a lot of men turn into twats when they put on builders uniforms

I will echo sentiments above that despite being a big bloke (and perhaps maybe because of it), I do get these territorial challenge stares and barged into every now and again.

This, absolutely (for full disclosure, I'm a man). I think problem in this instance isn't men as such, it's a particular kind of fucking twat (who tend almost exclusively to be men of course). Just yesterday one of them sat down opposite me on the train and started randomly kicking me in the shins.

Sometimes a lot of us men can be intimidating without meaning too. I recall once when living in a gated community of flats in an affluent area when on approach to a narrow set of stone steps there was a woman struggling to get a pram up them. I asked could I help, and she visibly stiffened. Generally it was one of those awkward moments for all concerned, but I wouldn't hold it against her. I just helped get the pram up and went on my way with as much alacrity as I could muster. Personally I think it's obvious when another human being is uncomfortable.

In my case I don't think anyone was at fault per se. It's just one of those things. To put it another way I am absolutely batty about dogs, but I'd always exercise caution when faced with a dog I am not familiar with. Doesn't make me a hater of dogs, quite the reverse.

Also right of association is foundational to a free society. The only potential exemption is we may have to interact with people in the workplace, we may need to get on with people professionally we may not choose to on our own time, but even then there should be limits.

I will echo sentiments above that despite being a big bloke (and perhaps maybe because of it), I do get these territorial challenge stares and barged into every now and again.

It probably is the same men and for some of the same reasons - status display, dominance etc etc.

Isn't it depressing that taking the angle that men DO know what this behaviour is and what it means, and could control it if they wanted to, is taken as the man-hating response? Personally, I think it's much more man-hating to say "ahhh, they don't know what they're doing, they just need a smile from you, poor dears".

Was the other thread deleted? I cant find it.

"The average man that stares at women is just as likely to stare at other men too. Especially at men like me. They size you up, judge your masculinity and will often pass judgement and make comment. It's not the same as its not sexual, I want to say its with violence but not really violence? Almost like they look at a woman and judge if they could sleep with them but they look at men as if judging if they can fight them, does that make sense? It's different but similar and equally intimidating and upsetting. "

I would wager that the men who stare at women wanting a smile (?) and those who stare at men and adopt the "hard man" pose to be intimidating, are the same men.
In my experience it's not 90%, nowhere near, most people just mind there own business.

Plays "if a man stares at you" thread.

It was a TAAT, Plays, started by an early poster on this thread, who put her own spin on the OP as she considers this OP to be talking nonsense and she should just smile FFS.

On it, VulcanWoman called feminists "paranoid and obsessive" which I thought was sweet.

Vulcan, TAATs are often deleted - if you disagree with an OP, you do so on the thread. HTH.

Which other thread Vulcan?

I am old-ish now and lucky in that I can do the raising-one-eyebrow thing, which I think (hope) shiws some disdain.

If they keep staring until I am really close I stare right back at them and may say a grumpy "morning" or "hello" or nothing if I feel pissed off.

I do have to psych myself up a little bit, but I feel strongly I refuse to be intimidated.

Cannot believe I have been dealing with this crap for 30+ yrs , part and parcel of being a woman. Oh joy.