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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Career and children and husband

35 replies

PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 08:45

I'm not totally sure what I want to get from this thread - I think I just need to rant a bit and see if anyone else out there feels the same way I do, if I may?

I recently read the KPMG Cracking the Code report (www.kpmg.com/UK/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/Pages/cracking-the-code-research–behavioural-differences-in-the-workplace.aspx) after it was linked from the Justine-shouldn't-have-said-that thread in AIBU. One bit (among lots of good stuff) particularly resonated with me - that women's careers can often have a slower burn to them in terms of the person's ambition. Women are less likely then men to start out intending to get to the top, but such ambition builds over time.

So it was with me. I joined my current workplace almost straight from uni in a standard graduate role. It took me seven years to achieve my first promotion (most of that time I was very unsure if I'd ever leave the coalface, or even how much I wanted to), but only five to achieve my second - and that was with two lots of 9 months maternity leave within those five years, and working between 25-32 hours per week for the whole of it, vice full-time as before. The second promotion partly came about because I was lucky in finding a team that really wanted me and could use my skills best at the higher grade, but mainly because I went on a big ZHOOOOOOM (that's a technical term) of personal development over that period and...well, got a lot better at lots of things, basically.

So, after the second promotion I was left thinking ok, I've achieved middle management. I have maybe 30+ years work left in me before I retire. Do I want to spend the whole of that time at my current level or do I want to try and move even higher? I think I want to move higher, actually. How much further might I be able to get? I want to find out! So I'm now more ambitious than ever and trying to do as much as I can to develop my skills even further in the relevant areas.

I'm still working part time (28 hours, hoping to go up to 32 soon if childcare arrangements change). I'm bloody fed up of it. I've done it for five years and I'm very frustrated at not being able to do more and develop faster. I also need to travel as part of the job (on average one night away every couple of months, though it's been more lately as I did some training). This is generally possible with enough notice, but sometimes there is huffing from DH as he claims I haven't consulted him when planning travel even though I blatantly have and he's just forgotten...

Separately, I also struggle in my days at home - my two boys are lovely and generally good, but toddler wrangling (plus before and after school care of Reception child) is stressful and tiring and generally unrewarding and I worry it's not doing them much good being with me sometimes. On bad days I just about manage to keep them safe and fed but I spend a lot of the rest of the time crying.

Here's the rub. DH has always worked full time. He doesn't want me to go full-time as it would mean using more childcare, and he doesn't think children should be away from their parents that long. Apparently his job is too important and they are too short staffed for him to consider going part time, even though we both work for the same large employer that is generally very good at accommodating flexible working requests (he's also the better paid out of the two of us, though as I've pointed out to him, this differential would be much smaller if I was working more and ascending the pay ladder faster). A few weeks ago I had a bit of a meltdown and begged for us to find a way to change things as it is sending me crazy (I had horrible PND after DS2 btw); between us we couldn't find any way that would allow me to go full time or do more travel, but he has started doing sole childcare one pm/evening a week so I can stay late at work - this is making a huge difference to me. But that seems to be the limit of what we can achieve.

Am I being totally unreasonable and selfish in feeling this way? Should I just try and can it until the children are older and everything's a bit easier? Please don't slag DH, he's amazing in just about every way except that I just don't think he quite understands how crazy it's sending me that out of the two of us, it only seems to be my career that has suffered through having children - at the time we took the decisions I was happy to do the long maternity leaves but since the horrible experience second time around and the promotion at work, I'm just so OVER the whole bloody thing it's not TRUE. It just doesn't seem FAIR. Is there anything else I can say or do to try and make myself feel better?

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poorchurchmouse · 16/11/2015 09:49

I know my approach looks drastic, and isn't great for your relationship. But it frankly doesn't sound as though the current situation is doing much for your relationship either: the resentment you're feeling wil really affect it, however much you try not to let it.

cailindana · 16/11/2015 09:48

My DH also expected me to take a back seat career wise. I said in that case I wanted a divorce. He changed his mind.

poorchurchmouse · 16/11/2015 09:47

Am I right in thinking you wouldn't actually feel that more time in childcare would be problematic for the children? If so, I think you need to take back control here. You need, for your career and your mental health, to work more and be at home less. You can, as a couple, fund the childcare necessary to do that. Therefore if rational argument isn't working and he can't see how unfair the current situation is on you, just do it - book the childcare and up your hours. And if he really feels it's not fair on the children, he needs to negotiate the issues at work so that he can be around more (by doing a compressed week or going part-time). It's his call if he wants to lose his hobby time rather than dropping hours at work. Because fundamentally, he's assuming it's your job to look after the children, and that isn't on.

As an aside, have you thought about a nanny? It sounds as though you could afford it, and it would give you one consistent carer plus more flexibility than a nursery. And it would make it much, much easier when school holidays come round.

HappyAsASandboy · 16/11/2015 09:41

I am in a similar situation, although I work full-time. But it's me that leaves works flexible hours so I can leave at 4pm three days per week, it's me that misses team lunches to cram in my hours, it's me that doesn't stay late/go for drinks because I am the default parent for the children.

My DH and I both have demanding jobs, where you are never going to get the best projects and promotions by working just enough hours with half your brain planning a village hall birthday party. I have made my peace (mostly) with the fact that it'll be my career that takes the hit, because If we both went part-time, or we both tried to plan parties from our desks, both our careers would flat line. So it makes sense for it to be just one person that takes the hit, for the greater financial good of the family. I wouldn't ask DH to be the one to ease off at work because he doesn't care about the same things for the kids as I do, so I'd be constantly frustrated that he is earning less yet the kids still don't have their party/swimming lessons/make moon sand after school.

Good luck finding your balance. It's not easy, and I'm not sure there is a way to really have it all :(

ChunkyPickle · 16/11/2015 09:40

I've written 2 different responses and deleted them - this is really raw for me too, as at the beginning of the year I had to turn down a really good job offer when it DP said that he couldn't/wouldn't accommodate any changes to allow him to take some responsibility for the kids dropoffs/pickups.

Luckily I found something freelance, for more money, that's letting me work full time and still drop the kids off at school/get them from (awesome) childminder, but the respect for DP is leaking away, and I don't want that - but when I'm holding down a job earning as much as him, and looking after the kids, and keeping the house and garden tidy, doing DIY, and sorting out all the paperwork while he does a couple of token bits poorly then I start to wonder if the occasional pleasure of having him around balances out the extra demands on my time having him around makes.

It's not fair. DP should do more. Your DP could do more. You are not being selfish, you are the only one seeing that there's even something selfish going on - you care about the kids, you care about yourself, you want the same from everyone else in the family, you're not being unreasonable, you're asking for adequate support.

PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 09:37

Four days a week childcare would solve 90% of the issues for me. At present we do 3, one day with me and one day with other family. The nursery bill is eye watering but my earnings comfortably outstrip it.

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PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 09:35

Yeah. I may even have said to him "I'm the one suffering because of your not totally logical ideas about childcare". But apparently nothing can be done differently and sometimes you just have to make sacrifices for your family. Again, I have pointed out that he is welcome to do two lots of pregnancy, childbirth, 6m+ exclusive bf (I'm not saying I want a medal for that or anything, just that it was hard and something only I could do, and it meant I couldn't leave bottle refuser DS2 during the day for months on end) and 9m mat leave, five years' part time work and THEN come back and give me his considered views on which of us has made the most sacrifices for our children. But nothing I say really seems to get through and I just end up feeling like a whiny cow who wants everything her own way.

Any ideas on what else I could say to him that might help him understand better? As I say, he's generally an absolutely tremendous husband in every way, he just can't seem to see how I feel on this. That and he feels trapped in his job - he doesn't feel his boss would look favourably on a request to work part time and he feels he'd be dumping his colleagues in the shit picking up the slack. Again, I have pointed out that this is his employer's problem not his, but it's not that easy when you're the one there, is it.

In fairness, I should point out that he has offered to work a compressed week so he can take one day off to do the day's childcare I currently do, but I just can't see this working. He'd have to get up stupidly early and go to bed stupidly early every single day, give up playing sport twice a week (I get equal opportunity to do my stuff btw, I go to the gym when the DC are in bed) and just generally have no life. The way I feel doesn't seem bad enough to have to justify that.

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Jenijena · 16/11/2015 09:24

Weve got possibly what you might prefer. We also preferred the child not to be in ft childcare, and both went to four days a week. Although there is possibly more pressure on DH to go full time (different employers) I'm the one more likely to want to go to ft (I'm certainly the one has worked more of my days off in the three years we've been doing this). The pros are enormous - we had similar home and work experiences. However, we are now both stuck in the career rut and are both 'trapped' in our current employers as realistically no jobs are ever advertised four days a week, and certainly not ones which would justify the move.

cailindana · 16/11/2015 09:19

To answer your question, no. Nothing will make you feel better about that fact that the person who is supposed to be your partner isn't supporting you. It's a bit fucking rich for him to say he doesn't want the children to be in more childcare when he refuses to be the one to take up the slack.

PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 08:46

Oh fuck, sorry for the length, thanks if you got to the end Blush

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