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Original poster

Career and children and husband

35 replies

PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 08:45

I'm not totally sure what I want to get from this thread - I think I just need to rant a bit and see if anyone else out there feels the same way I do, if I may?

I recently read the KPMG Cracking the Code report (www.kpmg.com/UK/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/Pages/cracking-the-code-research–behavioural-differences-in-the-workplace.aspx) after it was linked from the Justine-shouldn't-have-said-that thread in AIBU. One bit (among lots of good stuff) particularly resonated with me - that women's careers can often have a slower burn to them in terms of the person's ambition. Women are less likely then men to start out intending to get to the top, but such ambition builds over time.

So it was with me. I joined my current workplace almost straight from uni in a standard graduate role. It took me seven years to achieve my first promotion (most of that time I was very unsure if I'd ever leave the coalface, or even how much I wanted to), but only five to achieve my second - and that was with two lots of 9 months maternity leave within those five years, and working between 25-32 hours per week for the whole of it, vice full-time as before. The second promotion partly came about because I was lucky in finding a team that really wanted me and could use my skills best at the higher grade, but mainly because I went on a big ZHOOOOOOM (that's a technical term) of personal development over that period and...well, got a lot better at lots of things, basically.

So, after the second promotion I was left thinking ok, I've achieved middle management. I have maybe 30+ years work left in me before I retire. Do I want to spend the whole of that time at my current level or do I want to try and move even higher? I think I want to move higher, actually. How much further might I be able to get? I want to find out! So I'm now more ambitious than ever and trying to do as much as I can to develop my skills even further in the relevant areas.

I'm still working part time (28 hours, hoping to go up to 32 soon if childcare arrangements change). I'm bloody fed up of it. I've done it for five years and I'm very frustrated at not being able to do more and develop faster. I also need to travel as part of the job (on average one night away every couple of months, though it's been more lately as I did some training). This is generally possible with enough notice, but sometimes there is huffing from DH as he claims I haven't consulted him when planning travel even though I blatantly have and he's just forgotten...

Separately, I also struggle in my days at home - my two boys are lovely and generally good, but toddler wrangling (plus before and after school care of Reception child) is stressful and tiring and generally unrewarding and I worry it's not doing them much good being with me sometimes. On bad days I just about manage to keep them safe and fed but I spend a lot of the rest of the time crying.

Here's the rub. DH has always worked full time. He doesn't want me to go full-time as it would mean using more childcare, and he doesn't think children should be away from their parents that long. Apparently his job is too important and they are too short staffed for him to consider going part time, even though we both work for the same large employer that is generally very good at accommodating flexible working requests (he's also the better paid out of the two of us, though as I've pointed out to him, this differential would be much smaller if I was working more and ascending the pay ladder faster). A few weeks ago I had a bit of a meltdown and begged for us to find a way to change things as it is sending me crazy (I had horrible PND after DS2 btw); between us we couldn't find any way that would allow me to go full time or do more travel, but he has started doing sole childcare one pm/evening a week so I can stay late at work - this is making a huge difference to me. But that seems to be the limit of what we can achieve.

Am I being totally unreasonable and selfish in feeling this way? Should I just try and can it until the children are older and everything's a bit easier? Please don't slag DH, he's amazing in just about every way except that I just don't think he quite understands how crazy it's sending me that out of the two of us, it only seems to be my career that has suffered through having children - at the time we took the decisions I was happy to do the long maternity leaves but since the horrible experience second time around and the promotion at work, I'm just so OVER the whole bloody thing it's not TRUE. It just doesn't seem FAIR. Is there anything else I can say or do to try and make myself feel better?

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museumum · 15/01/2016 20:36

Good for you. Give it a couple of months and see how you feel.

IMO nobody should stay at home for ideological (not financial) reasons who dreads and hates it so much.

Personally I get really really stressed on Thursdays about finishing my weeks work and not being around the next day but I do love my Friday with my ds when it comes. If you don't, and can afford not to, don't do it.

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 15/01/2016 20:27

Yeah, the HV asked me the same thing last week. I did have PND after DS2 and in many ways, I don't feel I've been quite well since I had him.

It's hard to judge. I've had periods of feeling absolutely fine and when I haven't felt fine, it's generally been connected with spending a lot of time looking after the DC by myself. So I've always seen that as being the issue to solve Smile dunno, maybe I should go back to the doctor. I took citalopram for a while but could never decide if it was really making any difference.

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cailindana · 15/01/2016 18:49

I'm glad your DH has finally listened to you but it concerns me that you say you've been crying so much and finding it so difficult to cope with the children - do you think you could be depressed?

PalmerViolet · 15/01/2016 16:46

Glad it's all worked out for you as a family.

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 15/01/2016 13:00

Right. You know when a thread runs for a bit, OP gets loads of good advice but then it all goes quiet...then she comes back later with a kick ass update? Well BRACE everybody as THAT MOMENT HAS COME.

You were all totally right with your advice about the way forward, and I left this thread knowing I would have to find some way to effect change, even if I still wasn't sure how. I struggled through the end of the year and Christmas, still regularly quite tearful (because, you know...Christmas...) and was honest with DH about my feelings of not being able to cope, feeling like a failure, feeling I was letting my children down by not being the best mother I could be. And he was his usual wonderful self - hugged me a lot, told me I was doing brilliantly, reminded me that I've got through a huge personal trauma (which I haven't shared with you all - don't worry, you didn't miss it!) in the past year and generally should be a lot easier on myself than I ever actually am. And he took the DC out alone a couple of times over the Christmas holidays so I could have time to myself.

So we got through Christmas, but the real sticking point for me was always Fridays once back at work. Since Christmas I've had two of these - last Friday, and today. Last Friday was ok because I went and had a good rant/cry on my lovely health visitor, so felt a lot better. This week, I took a/l from work on Tuesday and had a day shopping and generally pleasing myself, which was LOVELY. I told myself that this was me stocking up on me-time, and that it would mean I could get through this Friday.

DH randomly phoned me this morning about half an hour after he'd left for work. I was already in tears as I'd just shouted at DS2 for doing a totally normal irritating toddler thing, and was feeling like shit.

We talked for a bit, and the upshot is that DS2 will now be attending nursery on Fridays so I can go to work.

I am happy Smile and I like my husband a bit more than I did first thing this morning! I've not totally enjoyed being so honest with him about how bad I've felt lately - the feelings of failure are still strong (though I know I'll get through them in time) and I still have a very powerful, lifelong instinct not to let anyone in or let them help me. But this is what I needed to do. And now, he gets it. Praise be, he gets it! And I get to go to work on Fridays! Yippee!

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Headofthehive55 · 17/11/2015 17:16

Well if he thinks the children should not be in full time care, he needs to go part time then.

My DH has never suggested that I should do anything. He just facilitates the best he can. It's not easy, but I certainly second that his salary is earned by you also. It's a joint team effort, childcare, earning.

My DH drives several hours a day just so I can stay in my part time job where I feel I am accepted and part of things.

wickedwaterwitch · 17/11/2015 16:35

He really is being unreasonable and you've tried to explain but he's not interested. They're his children too, I'd go with booking them into childcare and increasing your hours, if he doesn't like it then quite, he can do something about it can't he?

Wise words about 'what ifs' too from a PP - you'd be stuffed, he wouldn't, basically

wickedwaterwitch · 17/11/2015 16:21

Have only read your op but YANBU and why should your career suffer and not his? I'll read the thread now!

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 17/11/2015 14:16

If your income is that comfortable, then I would view a nanny for a couple of years as a good investment in both your careers - and as in investment in your marriage.

trilbydoll · 16/11/2015 19:21

I can understand your DH not wanting flexible working - while it is the employer's problem we all know in reality the p/t employee tries to do 40 hours work in 24, fails, and colleagues pick up the slack. It sucks and it's the big thing I hate about being p/t. But if he can see why he doesn't want to, surely he can see why you don't want to either?

I'm p/t but my two full days DH does pickup and I am not necessarily home before bedtime. For sick days he does more than his fair share, will go in at 5am to do a few hours before I need to go to work. And that makes me feel like we are juggling everything together, it's not just my problem.

Duckdeamon · 16/11/2015 18:37

But you could inform him of that now!

Surprising (not) how many high earning men have such "inflexible" jobs! If men like that won't request flexibility it's not great for equality at work or at home.

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 17:44

Itisbetternow yeah, I always have that sort of scenario in the back of my mind. I really don't think we'll ever divorce but then everyone thinks that, don't they?

On really bad days I fantasise briefly about it because then I could simply INFORM him I'm going full time and covering the remainder of my childcare responsibilities with paid childcare, and there'd be absolutely fuck all he could do about it Sad

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Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 17:41

Oh and I should say, he's not remotely possessive with his pay packet - he picks up most of our bigger purchases eg holidays, cars without a murmur. And he pays substantial amounts into savings accounts for the DC.

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Itisbetternow · 16/11/2015 17:39

My career took backstage when we had children. It was a joint decision that I would work fewer hours and more local. However I didn't appreciate that when the children were sick or the school called it was always my job that was more flexible.

So move on a few years... My STBXH had an affair and left. I'm now in the situation where I have 14 years of a pt pension and a career that has been ruined. I'm now being told I need to go full time which in the career I'm in isn't that easy with funding cuts.

Whatever you do take care. I loved my time with the kids and was happy to drop the career. However now things have changed and from a financial perspective I wish I hadn't gone part time etc.

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 17:37

He earns more than me - actually about twice as much. Which doesn't mean he sees his job as "more important", just that he sees no sense in reducing his earnings to enable me to (more slowly) increase mine. Though I have made the point about career-long earnings, as well as that if I worked more I'd gain validated skills that would directly increase my pay.

Where I think he does have a fair point is that my job is much more flexible than his - I can do some (not all) work from home so sometimes, for instance, I get a couple of hours in on a Friday pm when DS2 is napping. Wfh just isn't an option with his job, and his area isn't nearly as amenable as mine to requests for flexible working. My boss is hugely laid back about how I achieve my objectives and if I tell him I need to work 15 hours a day for a week and then have a fortnight off for school holidays, I doubt he'd bat an eyelid as long as I was ok and the work was getting done.

I mean, in DH's shoes I'd be pushing the flexible working angle harder, because in general I mind less about rocking the boat in order to get what I want. But he won't do it. I said this means he's prioritising his work and his colleagues, to whom he feels accountable, above me. He just got cross. I think he's trying to be all things to all people. As I say, he does more childcare since that conversation than he used to, so I can work. And I do appreciate that. I think he's trying to find a way of making all this work that doesn't involve any radical changes. Or more paid childcare. I'm just less sure than him that that is possible.

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PassiveAgressiveQueen · 16/11/2015 17:25

and nannies are fantastic

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 16/11/2015 17:24

have you asked him why his job is more important than yours?

if he has no answers i triple saying "well i am returning to work full time, i have booked the kids in to childcare, i am starting on the 1 december if you care that much fix it yourself"

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 17:10

X posted again!

if you work on a Friday some nannies who work for other families earlier in the week but want more money might work for a reasonable rate: you could do a mix of childcare.

I had no idea that was possible! Thankyou, that's a really good thought.

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Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 17:09

Missed a couple of posts earlier then had to go and do work all day. Thanks again for all your thoughtful replies.

I have been thinking of posting a general "thankyou Mumsnet" thread highlighting all the things I've learned from it - all sorts of feminism stuff; the idea that I earn DH's salary just as much as he does even though I work less, because I look after our children; how not to take on all the family shitwork just because I'm socially conditioned to do so; so many useful forms of words for raising points of conflict in more neutral and productive ways...it's all helped me get to a much better place where I not only know better what I want, but I also know I'm entitled to have it!

It helps, too, to have some external validation from this thread that what I want work-wise isn't - on the face of it - wildly unreasonable.

I've gained some strength today. I'll update if I manage to achieve any actual change soon Wink

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Duckdeamon · 16/11/2015 17:00

Also, if you work on a Friday some nannies who work for other families earlier in the week but want more money might work for a reasonable rate: you could do a mix of childcare.

Duckdeamon · 16/11/2015 16:58

Recognise some of this and agree that your H has let you down.

One option would be to try increased hours for a few months: DC might well be fine. If your H is so concerned about their childcare perhaps he could go PT!

I increased my hours because three days was untenable at work and I feared losing my job if I didn't (zero chance of promotion now am PT!) was most worried about the DC but they were actually fine and so was I!

Original poster
PuntasticUsername · 16/11/2015 09:58

I did think about a nanny, but I looked at average rates in our area and we would couldn't easily afford four full days (say, ten hours a day) per week.

I'm trying to think now how I would really feel about four days childcare a week. It does feel like a lot. Oh I don't know Sad

But you're right, the resentment and the fact that through past choices I'm now the default parent, is what's eating me - just as my career ambitions are really starting to build. I feel better for venting here though.

Thanks all for sharing your stories Flowers they are all why I put this in FWR! Nothing is easy, is it.

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OneMoreCasualty · 16/11/2015 09:56

Poorchurchmouse is right. Book the childcare. Don't worry about his arrangements if that's how he'd prefer to make flexibility work. Lots of people can't do careers, childcare and hobbies, at least for a while.

Point out it's more tax efficient to have two medium-high salaries than one high and one medium.

Oh, and the second you have work travel arranged or even mooted, send him an Outlook/Google/iCal appointment so that it's in his diary. Forgetting is no excuse.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 16/11/2015 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jenijena · 16/11/2015 09:54

Essential to our relationship is the respect that we have for our home and work situations. We also shared parental leave. I wasn't prepared to let all the sacrifices be mine. I know you don't want to hear it, but it sounds like your DH doesn't respect what you need or want. And that is surely a start of resentment?