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Original poster

even when men are trying to be supportive of liberal causes, women are othered

33 replies

UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 15/11/2015 20:41

This sentimental meme is all over my FB feed today. Could be worse, I suppose. Could have Britain First memes. But still. Am I the only one who is struck by - yet again -
To be male is normal, the male gaze is normal and women are STILL objectified in a liberal thought piece like this?

"France embodies everything religious zealots everywhere hate: enjoyment of life here on earth in a myriad little ways: a fragrant cup of coffee and buttery croissant in the morning, beautiful women in short dresses smiling freely on the street, the smell of warm bread, a bottle of wine shared with friends, a dab of perfume, children paying in the Luxembourg Gardens, the right not to believe in any god, not to worry about calories, to flirt and smoke and enjoy sex outside of marriage, to take vacations, to read any book you want, to go to school for free, to play, to laugh, to argue, to make fun of prelates and politicians alike, to leave worrying about the afterlife to the dead."

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TeiTetua · 16/11/2015 14:11

Women have the right to wear short dresses in France (If they're beautiful) but burqas, not so much.

This is from years ago, but there was a French politician named Edith Cresson, who was quoted as saying something like "When I go to England or America, I can walk down the street and the men all ignore me. It must be because they're all gay there." Sometimes one despairs.

EcclefechanTart · 16/11/2015 13:57

Yes. It's very clear that the writer thinks beautiful women in few clothes are there for his enjoyment, like buttered croissants. It's not the women's freedom to wear what they like that is highlighted, but his freedom to look at them. Yuck.

Helmetbymidnight · 16/11/2015 13:55

A coffee, a croissant, a pretty lady.

Awwwww

Bleurgh.

squidzin · 16/11/2015 13:53

But the meme is celebrating joy and freedom which are things religious extremism is determined to take away. There is nothing joyous to celebrate about a scowling face.

True, it would be more poignant and realistic to have written "the freedom to see a woman in a short skirt crying tears ftom her eyes because her son has just been murdered by a Jihadi". But that is no cause for celebration.

You can't see the face of a woman smiling in public, in Sharia law. a woman's face is covered. A woman's joy is hidden. We have the freedom to share joy.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 16/11/2015 13:51

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 16/11/2015 13:30

I actually sort of think it's a harmless meme, and the women in short skirts bit is directly referencing the (absence of) hijab. It is relevant that women in france can wear short skirts if they want because the can't in Sharia law.

But that's not at all what the writer says. He talks of the rights that "beautiful women" have in France, not women. It is through the lens of men's priorities. Thank goodness beautiful women have the right to wear short skirts and laugh. Not for them, their rights are not priority. Otherwise it would say "women in short skirts smiling or scowling". It is about pretty women only. That's why I don't like it.

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VestalVirgin · 16/11/2015 12:31

"To go to school for free" is maybe meant to differentiate France from countries where one has to pay for education?

Germany has free universities, (as in, you don't have to pay to go there) which is a really good thing and I would mention as one of the good things about the country.

squidzin · 16/11/2015 11:48

Haaa and I read "to enjoy sex outside of marriage" in completely the wrong way! I now realise it's probably "sex while unmarried".

I actually sort of think it's a harmless meme, and the women in short skirts bit is directly referencing the (absence of) hijab. It is relevant that women in france can wear short skirts if they want because the can't in Sharia law.

It's mirroring the sexist nature of religious extremism.

Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 16/11/2015 11:35

I think it is quite a cliché too.
Children playing in the Luxembourg Gardens? Well, yes, but that's not most people's reality.

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BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 16/11/2015 11:22

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NeverEverAnythingEver · 16/11/2015 11:04

I agree with you too UnDeux (and not just because Buffy does. Grin)

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 16/11/2015 09:35

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Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 16/11/2015 08:45

Preemptive
You are quite right. France is notorious for street harrassment as part of normal life. Although not as bad as Rome where I was a few weeks ago and was shocked by the amount of unwanted attention I got. When I posted on FB about random Roman blokes talking to me, two French friends wrote things along the lines of: "Ah well, better to get the attention than be ignored"
WTAF?

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BoboChic · 16/11/2015 07:25

Pfff at the tourist blurb.

OneMoreCasualty · 16/11/2015 07:22

Yeah, that was a bit weird. Is it badly translated from the French, I wonder, with the meaning actually being to go to school freely?

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 16/11/2015 07:17

I snorted at the "beautiful women in short skirts", but mainly for the irony: whenever there's a street harassment fred, France is noted as a prolific venue. Heck, I only just dabble in the FWR section, do I really get to be the first to mention that? >preens< Xmas Grin

But back to the main meme: yes, written by men, for men. Grr!

Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 16/11/2015 06:53

I think some of the points are weird: 'to go to school for free'

Seems like it has been written a bit off the cuff without much reflection and it's thanks to FB it is getting exposure.

But it is pretty crap.

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VestalVirgin · 16/11/2015 00:05

Wait ... is "The Dicatator" not that movie where Chaplin plays Hitler? And is he not giving that speech in his role?

I am confused.

I wholly agree that the male gaze is annoying and needs to go away. (Women are mentioned as commodity in the German national hymn, and I am not sure they cut that. They DID cut the reference to the old borders from the hymn as sung, but not the reference to "brothers" and "fatherland".)

It may not seem much as isolated thing, but it is like having ill-fitting shoes - you can walk in them for a while, but then you will get blisters, and a while after that, there are open wounds on your feet.

OneMoreCasualty · 15/11/2015 23:30

The "right" not to worry about calories is a weird one. I'd've thought the concept of worrying about calories was far more embedded in the EU and US than any country this paragraph is targeting!

Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 15/11/2015 23:23

Totally agree with that. It's no longer about women's freedom it's all about men's desire.

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OneMoreCasualty · 15/11/2015 23:20

And Lass doesn't self-define as a feminist, AFAIK.

OneMoreCasualty · 15/11/2015 23:19

I agree with you, OP, and disagree with Lass. It's the use of the word beautiful that grates, places it beyond freedom of dress and more about freedom of male gaze.

Original poster
UnDeuxTroisCatsSank · 15/11/2015 22:41

Yes, let's tackle sexism only when everything else has been tackled. There are always more important issues. And women bringing up sexism in the context of terrorism are being silly. We should only try to sort out the sexist world once everything else is fine because it is right at the bottom of the list of important issues.

Right.

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HairyLittleCarrot · 15/11/2015 22:12

That's told you, Undeuxtroiscatssank.
Now take your petty concerns and kindly consult the approved feminist priority list set up in the feminist lounge to ensure you are addressing the correct list order, from worthiest to least.

It's the whole, "you may have your important issue, served with a little side of sexism. What do you mean, please take back the sexism! I'm afraid you must take it as it comes!"

LassWiTheWeelStockitFarm · 15/11/2015 21:43

Yes there are far bigger issues to worry about but feel free to take offence at one word.