DD says she no longer labels herself a feminist

I would say that your dd is probably just trying to differentiate herself from you.

To be perfectly honest, I think being misogynist and being misandrist are as bad as each other.

Killing and raping women and upholding a system which enables other men to kill and rape women is as bad as disliking men and not wanting to have anything to do with them?

You should see a doctor religious or ethical authority with this condition. I don't think it is healthy.

Besides, work on your reading comprehension, the word was feminism not misandry.

She said that one of the lads she hangs around with and likes a lot said that she 'lost points' for being a feminist.

The right answer might have been, "Mmmm... you're not doing too well, either."

Maybe this blog post is interesting to you: glosswatch.com/2015/01/24/choosing-between-misogyny-and-feminism-a-practical-guide/

(The blogger basically says that it is way easier to be misogynist than feminist, because society will applaud the former but hate you for the latter.)

I'd tread very lightly on this. My mum is a radical feminist who drove us all to tears with her ranting polemics. Kids learn to say the right things to their audience, so your DD knows better than to agree with that hot guy but you will never 'win' that one.

If you get at all heavy about it she'll just go 'oh yes mum you're so right, yup, yup' the way I always did just to get out of the room.

The good news is she's clearly bright and will be fine in the long term. Teenagers say any old shite, try not to over react.

I agree BarbarianMum with what you say. The bit that makes me sad is that girls seem (I put it no stronger than that) to care much more now about sucking up to boys than my generation ever did (teens in the late 50s/early 60s). That's what so counter intuitive.

Maybe your daughter OP needs to go back to the dictionary definition of feminist to really see what it means and feel better about it.

I've just finished reading Emmeline Pankhurst's own account of the struggle for the vote "My Own Story" (one of my grans was a suffragette). When I put that together with what my generation struggled for in the 60s/70s - equal pay, opening up of new careers, the ability to take out loans/mortgages without a male guarantor etc., then to me, to deny being a feminist would be a huge betrayal of so many brave women who were responsible for the opportunities OP's daughter has today.

I suppose, in a way, the fact that she can take for granted these things is the very thing that gives her freedom to deny the label. Freedoms can be lost so easily though if we are not careful.

Sorry, I'm pretty ancient and, as I say, a bit about it.

I'm sure she will regain her courage as she gets older if you continue to have a dialogue with her and support her.

Exactly, so you (we) kicked against it. These things (whether identifying as a teen feminist is "OK" or not) go in cycles. OP's dd has the right stuff in her head - she still needs time to work out exactly what she believes, the image of "self" she wants to project, and what her priorities (wrt feminism and other things) are.

Younger teens care what other teens think - it's part of the maturation process, not the end of it. Really doubt she's going to conclude at the end of it all that the way forward is to be a handmaiden to men.

I'm too old OP to advise as the world is a different place now from when I was young.

The thing that saddens me is that with women more independent, autonomous and self-reliant than ever (apparently) these days, girls' attitudes to boys appears to be going backwards.

Honestly, as a feminist at school among lots of other blossoming feminists, when encountering that attitude from some immature adolescent youth our response was just to shrug and tell them to F-off. We couldn't have cared less. Plenty of other fish in the sea with more grown-up attitudes was our view.

So, why now to many girls feel they have to play the obedient puppy around boys? It is so counter intuitive. Yes, I know pressures change throughout the generations but, honestly, the pressure on my generation to be passive, submissive, "naive" young ladies was way way stronger.

So what is going on? I do blame the internet and the poisonous attitudes it spreads to a great degree and other rubbish like "celeb" media etc.
It makes me so

Well, she isn't a feminist is she? She thinks a boy's comments are worth listening to more then her being equal to him.

Perhaps suggest she gives up school to stay home and clean the house for you, after all there is no point her getting an education.

Or that she does the undercover thing vestal mentions, because really she is a feminist, she just doesn't wnt the label society puts on feminists.

Great!

I think that's the first time I actually managed to help solve someone's problem on an internet thread.

To clarify, I think you don't have to worry as long as she doesn't swallow the antifeminist bullshit she's fed, but only tries to protect herself. If she used "man-hater" and "feminazi" (most ridiculous word combination ever, the nazis used women as incubators for new soldiers) in a context that implies she believes that nonsense, then that's ... very sad.

Well ... if she feels using the label of "feminist" is like painting a target on her back, then I'd actually agree with her.
I don't walk around telling people that I'm a feminist either. Men don't need to know, if they are not clever enough to figure it out themselves. That way, it is easier for me to find out whether they are antifeminists. (Yes, I actually believe they will pretend to not be antifeminists to not lose points with me. I am arrogant like that.)

Encourage her to go undercover until she feels safe to be open about her beliefs. Being a teenager is hard, I can understand she doesn't want to be bullied.

It is worrying that she values the opinion of that asshat who told her she "lost points", though.

I am not impressed with the tights must be worn stance.

It's off putting to be associated with the Nazi party, no wonder she is put off.

howtorebuild, I am actually a bit gleeful that they decided to switch the school uniform to trousers. Because trousers are way more comfortable, especially in winter, and apparently some schools force girls to wear skirts, which is horrible. So I hope that's the reason of the 50% agreement?

Of course, tights do nothing to protect girls from anything but cold temperatures. But a rule that enforces trousers is not worse than any other school uniform rule and will protect girls from catching a cold while they are in the phase where they try to appease males.

That said, I was furious when a school in Bavaria banned short trousers for girls in the middle of summer with a similar reasoning - Germany does not have school uniforms, so this is a rule that only applies to girls.

And yes, it is worrying in general.

However, I think what is almost worse is the constant messages girls are subjected to ... I avoid reading any malestream internet sites, but some I cannot avoid, and there it is all "this celebrity wore an ugly dress, that celebrity showed her breasts".

Harriet, that's dreadful.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11991428/Primary-school-tells-girls-to-wear-tights-in-interest-of-modesty.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

Look at the message sent to children, it's no wonder, alarmingly 50% agree with the school.

I think maybe we should all turn off the wifi and speak to all our children. As I said upthread, it's predominantly the girls that are distancing themselves. The boys are about 50/50 in some very heated debates on feminism on ds' threads. Girls are maybe 80/20 against.

Ds' behaviour is indeed sad, Vestal, as he's under the same pressure to fit in as OP's dd. Neither of them want to stick their heads above the parapet.
He is every bit as obsessed with his looks as any girl I've ever met, more so than a lot. He declares himself fat yet is underweight. Refuses to be photographed by family yet posts "OMG I'm so ugly" pics on FB. TBH, with his intelligence and ability you'd think he'd understand the ridiculousness of media body images but, like so many teenage girls, he compares himself negatively to the scrawny dudes he sees in Kerrang.
I have frequently heard ds air decidedly feminist views: it seems to be the label "feminism" that he's decrying, to fit in with the herd. I find this sad whatever the gender.

lastuseraccount, I think I remember learning a tiny bit about suffragists in school, but it really was only a tiny bit. And as for feminism, I cannot recall that it was ever mentioned.

Maybe they teach about it in more progressive schools but not where I live.

I identified as feminist as soon as I knew what that is, but then, I was a social outcast anyway so I had nothing to lose.

I don't think there is much you can do, just keep challenging. My 12 yo DD after being on tumbl for awhile, said that perhaps she was a boy because she didn't like stereotypically girly things. Was a very short conversation where I set her straight . She might try to fit in with her peers, but as an obviously thinking person she will make up her own mind.