Is this rape?

I just love that "with all due respect" at the beginning of the hilariously inappropriately-named "feministmom"'s post. Too, too cute when what actually comes across from his post (I'm assuming his) is "with absolutely zero respect to you, anyone else or, to be honest deep down, probably myself".

Do bore off and take your rape myths with you.

I also take exception to the depressingly unconsensual sounding low bar of consent expressed above, if I have read it correctly, because the sentence structure is a bit impenetrable - I'm reading "well, you can't really put your penis in someone's mouth if they don't want you to, and if the person whose mouth it's in doesn't directly say no or push it away, she must really want it there". Er, no, don't think so. Am I reading this correctly? I haven't seen the programme, I'm just going on what's described here.

ffs just because he believes he "has consent" doesn't mean it's not rape!

Indeed, the belief has to be reasonable. Whether the fact that she did not say no or make any move to push him away or stop him, in conjunction with the fact that she must have been doing something to help matters along, makes it reasonable for him to believe that she was at least consenting to the oral sex, is another matter. Many think it not likely such a case would get to court to even get to a jury deciding on the matter.

feministmom why don't you just change your name to mom, that'd be more honest. I have read some comments by you, and all were antifeminist.

If one has to ask whether something is rape, the answer, in 99% of cases is: YES, IT IS.

Because if there really was no rape, there is no ambiguity.

This is the second thread today where I've see massively unfeminist comments from the ironically named feministmom. In my experience if you have to ask if it was rape then it probably was.

FM has just started another obviously troll thread which I've reported.

What bullshit FeministMom!

With all due respect I think if one has to ask if a specific scenario is "rape" then it isn't rape at all.

If one really was raped there would be no ambiguity.

It's like asking if someone punched you in the face or not, either they did or they didn't.

ffs just because he believes he "has consent" doesn't mean it's not rape!
It's his responsibility to know what constitutes rape - if he's mistaken it doesn't mean he should be let off wth a slap on the wrist
If he's confused, that's not an excuse either

(3/4 way through on iplayer but am all indignant again now)

Thanks for the link Bacon

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/2500166-Is-this-rape-BBC3-now

Link to other thread which I've also commented on. I was absolutely appalled by some of the comments! What on earth are these kids being told by their parents/school?!

If I were glasses kids mum is be UTTERLY ASHAMED.

Just watched it this morning and can't find the other thread!

I thought it was interesting (and scary) how the group gave the response of >50% believing she didn't give consent and >50% also believing that he thought he had consent. Really highlighted the confusion and lack of awareness surrounding what actually constitutes consent. Those that said 'not rape' at first and then changed their minds seemed disturbed about how that now impacted their views on friends' past liaisons, which was good. Great to see it provoking thought, I hope lots of teens watched it.

I totally agree the glasses bloke had alarming ideas with the 'she would have said no if she didn't want it' etc. I got the impression though, that it was largely naivety on his part - he didn't seem to understand that fear can illicit different responses in different and that in her case she froze, or what consent means. Of course naivety can perpetuate some very dangerous attitudes and isn't an excuse... but it demonstrates the urgent need for some comprehensive teaching on consent in schools.

They (mostly!) seemed like very nice and empathetic young people, but had clearly picked up on lots of rape myths and were only just having them dispelled on the show. Would be great if workshops like that could be standard across secondary schools.

Yes, I thought it was revenge rape, too. He was furious that she was with his friend.

I said on the other thread, too, that I found it sinister that Tom stayed behind after everyone left. I felt that was quite deliberate.

I agree with you, Fay. Very, very worrying.

Seen it, its shocking and there's another thread on the telly section.