Petition to stop trans woman being sent to make prison

Surely this is just a case of her going to the GP for a certificate. They are the "body" we have authorised to make this decision - it's not up to us, or a petition, or even a judge or a court. It's the GP's call.

Yes, me too Freshwater.

That's interesting, Anchor. Where did this come from as I couldn't anything in the reports? I did suspect that given that the guidelines don't actually require a GRC, that there had to be more to the story, ie that there was a deliberate decision based on her individual case that she ought not to be in a women's prison. It actually makes me feel better about this, because it seems like there has been an effort to assess not just the risks to Tara, but the risks to the women in the women's prison, which is exactly as it should be. If actually the story here is that MTT aren't just being chucked willy nilly (?!) into women's prisons with no assessment of risk, then I am a little less worried than before.

"As it hasn't been mentioned...I think it crucial to consider that Tara could, in theory, impregnate the women."

Would being on female hormones stop this? Do "pre-op" trans women take female hormones?

Is my understanding of these petitions correct, in as much as anyone can start one for any reason?

Tara has had breast implants but still has a penis, according to her mother.

Her mother also implied that Tara has not lived the last six years solely as a female. The last year, potentially. Which probably explains the lack of GRC, which requires you to live as a female for 2 years before it can be awarded.

Tara severely beat up a woman. Legally, this cannot affect where she is sentenced - the decision has to be made upon her legal gender, and the risks to/from her in both environments. The magistrates agreed that there was a risk posed to her if she was in the general male prison population, so she is segregated. They assessed that she would potentially pose a risk to women in a women's prison, hence that argument being thrown out.

The petition is bollocks.

I think Tara will be at particular risk in a men's prison, and it may be difficult to place her on a vulnerable prisoners wing, given they will be chock full of sex offenders, but it's the job of the staff in a men's prison to manage the risk, not the job of female inmates to accept any random penis owner who 'identifies' as female in their nick.

Thank you for this thread. I was sent a copy of the petition today and was really annoyed by it. I emailed change.org to find out when their petition to ensure woman only spaces for women in prison would be coming out...

It takes around 14 weeks to get one, and around 95% are accepted.

www.gires.org.uk/law/gender-recognition-panel

It's relatively to easy to get a gender recognition certificate.

You need to have lived 2 years in your new gender, and provide a report from a registered gender dysphoria doctor, and one from any doctor.

There is no requirement to have had surgery, but the doctor must say why not, if you haven't.

So basically there ARE people with penises in female prisons already.

I don't think anyone wants harm to come to TW in any circumstance, even if they are violent criminals. This is about minimising the risk to the female prison population, surely?

You don't need to have your penis removed in order to get a GRC.

If, after the length of time Tara has been transitioning, their doctors haven't issued one, it's either because they don't believe that Tara means to make their transition permanent, or Tara hasn't asked.

Most trans people don't "complete" transition in the sense of having surgery on their genitals - I was pretty shocked/surprised when I found that out. I think a lot of people assume that's how it's generally done, but it's not. I think it's something like 80% of MTT will always have their penises intact.

I'm not sure what, in Tara's case her doctor "medically declaring" her to be a woman actually means. I think the "reconstructive surgery" is deliberately obfuscating - are we talking about the breast implants?

I find that telegraph article pretty shocking. Not one word about protecting female prisoners, or any kind of exploration for why prisons are even sex-segregated in the first place. Not one. "The dangers of a trans woman being placed in a male prison are obvious and concerning". OUTRAGE! The dangers of setting precedents for male bodies in women's prisons? Meh. Who cares? I wonder, where then should "genderqueer" people be placed if they commit criminal offences? What should HM prison service do then? Make them pick a side? or just file in the box marked woman/other?

I should say I have no objection to trans people being safely housed in prisons. I'm not a heartless cow. But I've only just had my eyes opened to all this stuff, and I'm not feeling the love for erasing women's rights in favour of gender rights because I'm quite wound up about it all right now.

And yet, solitary confinement happens everyday within certain Cat A prisons.

Maybe she could identify as innocent and avoid prison altogether.

X-post!

Then the Telegraph article is misreporting. (probably nothing new there!)

Hmmm, sounds like we don't have the crucial bit of info here. Is it to delicate for the press to report wether she still has a penis? That seems to be the crux of the matter.

'SHE' HAS A PENIS

"Last night Tara’s mother, 48, said that her daughter still had the vestige remains of a penis, despite having 34EE breasts.

She said the hormone treatment had shrunken Tara’s ‘manhood’ and she was due to have it removed ‘at some point’ and was still taking hormone treatment she has been receiving for some years."

It's a penis.

Not a vestigal penis.

An actual, fully intact penis.

Maybe she could identify as innocent and avoid prison altogether.

Her mum was on the radio this afternoon. She said that although 'he' knew at aged 5 that he wanted to be a girl, at approx 26? Now, whilst having lived as a woman for a very long time, she hadn't completed the final transition, so hadn't got the certificate.
Mum made it sound like you could only get the certificate once the process had been completed- penis removed.
Did I misunderstand / misinterpret mum then?

This article implies that her transition is complete:

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11960559/Tara-Hudson-Prisons-have-a-serious-problem-with-transgender-people.html#disqus_thread

If she has completely transitioned, ie. no penis, then she probably belongs in the women's facility.

Only as a temporary measure. Generally they are housed in specialist wings for vulnerable offenders.

Aren't sex offenders/paedophiles sometimes put in solitary confinement for their own safety?