Germaine Greer

For a person with male biology to say that he thinks, feels, and wishes to live as a woman, is for him to say that women must (or should) think, feel, and live in a particularly defined way, which is fundamentally different to how men (must, or should) think, feel and live.

How can it be difficult to see why feminists would be unable / unwilling to work from this premise?

The tacking on of the 'T' to the LGB rights movement is, I think, where the well-meaning eagerness to embrace trangenderism comes from, as if it is a liberation movement like the LGB and feminist movements are, as opposed to a dangerous reinforcement of the prison that is gender.

It's so disappointing that the number of people prepared to write about this making absolutely no effort to understand why some women are saying what we say. I read Zoe Williams in the guardian today, no effort to engage whatsoever. The explanation that women are saying these things simply to be cruel and spiteful for unfathomable motives is so readily accepted by everyone, it's most dismaying.

I'm fed up of the number of articles on this that are positively gleeful about GG getting her 'comeuppance'.

If the reporting was a bit more balanced, it would tell a totally different story - i.e., this is a complex issue on which people are really divided and which needs to be discussed rather than hateful old woman makes embarrasingly out-of-date statements.

Hasn't Cardiff University announced already that they will not be withdrawing the invitation for GG to speak? GG has stated that she isn't going to attend, and I don't blame her. So regardless of petitions, the effect has still been to stymie the event. The whole thing is just so exasperating. I can't even bear to look at what the idiots are saying on Twitter.

Aghh! Getting more and more frustrated about the reporting of this. There is article after article about or mentioning and linking to the petition, but hardly a mention anywhere of the counter-petition.

It does suck for transgender people, life must be a challenge. Life is a challenge for women, the disabled, people of various classes, casts, race and so on.

I would like different issues on the agenda please.

And if patriarchy didn't cling to the idea of normative binary opposite gender roles - man = male =masculine & woman = female = feminine - then there wouldn't be a problem. A born man who wanted to adopt the lifestyle, behaviour, looks, dress of a woman could just do so. Just as women today wear trousers, have short hair, earn money, own property, and vote, as men of yesterday were the only ones alowed to.

And if men are ridiculed - well, think of the ridicule (to the point of violence) directed at women fighting for liberation over the milennia.

But to say a man who lives as a woman "becomes" a woman - well, it's a misrepresentation of biology. But if they're doing what they want, living how they want to live, who cares?

It's mostly men who are bothered about men staying men but adopting a "feminine" lifestyle (for want of a better word). It's a mix of misogyny and homophobia.

Because homophobia is founded on misogyny. To stereotypical "masculine" men a man who loves men, and has sex with men, and identifies as gay, is akin to being a woman, and therefore less than fully human.

Wasn't it Professor Greer who said ages ago, that women have to overlook how much men hate them? Feminism is dangerous knowledge in that way.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading, "they need help to come to terms with what body they have", didn't they used to try that with someone that was gay, well they still do.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. They used to try to condition gay people to think or act like they are not gay. The suggestion above is not that transpeople should be forced to live a lie - i.e., continue to present as male if they are a transwoman, but that they need to come to terms with what body they have. This is a biological fact. They do have this body. They have to come to terms with it. A male body cannot ever be made female (and vice versa). It can be made to appear female in some ways but there are many ways in which it will never be female and there is a high cost for these cosmetic changes (painful surgery, life-long dependence on hard-core medication). Transpeople, whether or not they choose to transition medically, need to come to terms with this because they cannot simply change into another body in the way that a gay man can just accept his homosexuality and sleep with men. It sucks for them but it is a fact, and denying it is helping nobody.

I think you need to educate yourself in the matter them maybe you'd have some empathy and understanding

Ha ha ha ha! Pretty good joke there, VulcanWoman

Just seen that the petition currently has 2,465 signatures whereas the counter-petition has 2,356. Given that the petition seems to have been massively pushed and the counter-petition hardly mentioned (especially in the Guardian - for example, this Guardian article about the petition which doesn't mention the counter-petition: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/23/petition-urges-cardiff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture and this article that links to the petition but doesn't mention the counter-petition: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/23/petition-urges-cardiff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture), this seems pretty amazing on the part of the counter-petition. I'm really glad to see there is more balance in this than you would think just by reading the papers. But very sad and frustrated that Greer has been prevented from speaking and all the women who would have loved to hear her have been prevented.

Surely as a journalist its your job to investigate why there is a tension between GGs position and TA.

I am not buying the whole she probably hasn't thought about angle, its her job to think about it, she is being paid by the public to be inquisitive and curious.

Flora, Countess, no doubt you're right. I didn't intend to state a strong opinion that Kirsty Wark knows the ins and outs of this issue because my guess is that she doesn't. I'm sure it's true that most people have not given this much thought. Your average liberal/leftie type of person (KW probably falls into that category) would most likely adopt a knee jerk pro trans rights position with an assumption that this is a put-upon minority group fighting for their human rights and therefore deserving of support, without examining what the implications of all this are for women.

FreshwaterSelkie, your wars of religion comparison is spot on.

Thank god for MN - to read Twitter, you would think there was only thought to be had about the whole trans thing and only one way of thinking it (which generally includes a lot of ageism and disgusting insults, as well).

The funny thing is, it's not second wave feminists who stab, beat, or intimidate trans people. Greer is not waiting down an alley near a nightclub with a knife shouting 'tranny scum'. Indeed, I'll warrant it is most often men doing that. And yet it's feminists and women who are ordered to do something about it and thought to be the biggest problem trans people face.

I'm with the Countess on this. I think KW's questions were indicative of most people's knowledge of trans issues, even intelligent people with an interest in current affairs. These issues are just not talked about in the mainstream media. KW has been scolded on Twitter for transphobic questions (e.g. If a man wants to have an operation to become a woman...). For most intelligent people, they haven't thought about this much more than that a tiny number of people are doing this, living awful lives, so why not try to make them feel better by saying they are women.

The more transactivists explain their position the better as far as I am concerned. Then it can be seen as the nonsense it so patently is.

I don't know, I think it's surprising how often perfectly intelligent people with strong opinions about trans issues turn out to not really know basic things about the issues (like the difference between transgender and intersex, and whether most transwomen have had surgery).
I would not be surprised if Kirsty really didn't have the first clue what was going on.

Rai I have to disagree the BBC news team have been shit for a while now, the whole premise of the interview was weird, GG has been no platformed and instead of contextualising the situation Kirsty Warm just asked a series of banal thoughtless questions.

There is no analysis no investigation, why didn't they interview Cardiff uni women's officer instead make her defend her position. Also I think Kirsty Warm is mediocre at best, but then so is the rest of the editorial team.

I think you're probably right there, Raia.

Raia you got there before me

I think the interview was a set-up between Wark and Greer so Greer could say what she wanted. Fair play to them if it was.

Good point Rai.

GG was only on Newsnight because the hoo-ha over her speaking at Cardiff had made the news, and Kirsty Wark was obliged (as journalist) to seek answers to the questions that these idiots (i.e. those seeking to no-platform GG in Cardiff) had raised. It wasn't an in-depth "Kirsty Wark talks to Germaine Greer about her life and work" type of interview after all. I'm sure if it were, KW would not have asked such tortuously worded and banal questions! KW had to parrot the questions and accusations being levelled at GG in order to give GG an opportunity to respond. And Germaine responded magnificently.

Agree, really interesting blog Briar. I am now the second person to follow it on Bloglovin. Clearly a departure from my usual sewing and cooking fair!