Germaine Greer

Well shove I am 26 and definitely a live thing. Also what do you mean my biological femininity? I believe femininity is a social construct and has nothing to with biology.

The good thing about Greer is that she's tough and been through it all before - the sex positive feminists tried to get rid of her years ago with their "empowering" bullshit and she rode it out and is still around being amazing.

Of course, no platforming hadn't really taken off in the same way 5/10 years ago and it enabled her to argue her point - unfortunately it seems that now you ascribe to the correct opinion or you STFU. Very inclusive indeed...

I sometimes think Greer has become some sort of whipping boy(girl) for feminism and from now on she is just going to get trolled over trans issues ad nauseum, ignoring anything else she has said etc.

As other have mentioned how does no platforming help?

Taking the voice away from women, 'bigger picture' comes to mind surely?

But is one acceptable and the other not?

msrisotto - it's partly temporality, I think! And the way in which the identity is 'cited' as a cultural entity is a bit different. Interesting question as to how precisely that works!

I mean that I am suspicious of ideas that there is an 'authentic' or 'essential' or 'biological' femininity that is rooted in the body. I recognise that many people believe in this, but I personally do not. Along with many, many third wave feminists!

(In fact, my experience of feminism in my everyday life and feminism on Mumsnet are poles apart - I am genuinely surprised and intrigued by this!! I didn't know second wave feminism was still A Live Thing!)

shovetheholly I really don't understand what you are saying, I am questioning how someone can identify as a woman without being a woman. What do you mean by authenticity, a vagina or uterus.

What is the difference between the temporary entertainment and the lifestyle choice?

"Wearing native american indian headdress if you are not native american is cultural appropriation and is quite rightly denounced. Aren't trans women guilty of this as well?"

I think there's a massive difference between wearing the dress as a kind of temporary entertainment (e.g. for Halloween) and wearing it because you feel that it is your identity. (And I don't just mean in that rather flippant way of 'Oh, I'm part Cherokee' that you hear from celebs!!) Cultural appropriation has many guises, some further beyond the pale than others.

I am suspicious of ideas of "authenticity" when it comes to identity. And I personally think that in a couple of decades a lot of anti-trans feeling will look like those kinds of unbridled racism that you see in clips from the 1960s does now. (I don't mean that we have 'solved' racism now, just that there is an unashamedness about it in those clips that seems quite parallel to the outspokenness of some groups on this issue today).

Yeah I access MN via Safari on my phone, I often find the search function buggy.

" I searched for "Germaine Greer" and came up with nothing though, not even this thread! "

how bizarre

Msrisotto - I did mean about GG and the Cardiff petition rather than trans activism vs feminism in general . I searched for "Germaine Greer" and came up with nothing though, not even this thread!

I am black in the exact same way I am a woman. Adolph Reed Jr wrote about this recently, I have posted this article several times on this board but its so good I will post it again here it is.

I like your halloween name Buffy .

Because men's right to be validated in their choice of expression is valued and women's experience of womanhood is not.

Nope, it's a good point, that's been made before.

Maybe my post is in the wrong thread.

I'm not quite sure how to state this so apologies if it isn't very coherent but...

Cultural appropriation is a word I hear more now than ever before. Wearing native american indian headdress if you are not native american is cultural appropriation and is quite rightly denounced. Aren't trans women guilty of this as well? Why is this not recognised?

I do feel a bit silly to be so late to the party on this. Like GG, I don't give transwomen much thought, beyond hoping they have perfectly lovely, fulfilling lives, but not accepting them as women.

a bit like the male MPs in the H of C trying to silence women speaking by calling 'BREASTS' when one of them tries to speak.

Kind of funny that all these uni types don't see that GG is being silenced because she is a woman

Radfems have been talking about it for ages but don't tend to get listened to much, even by other feminists!

I think outcry is abruptly silenced by calls of "TERF".

I'm stunned. Absolutely floored. Why is there not a fucking outcry? I'm actually more concerned about that, than where they are incarcerated.

I wonder how many are rape crimes?