Germaine Greer

People who incite others to commit crimes, should absolutely not be given a platform. Suggesting that encouraging stupid or misguided people to rape or strap explosives to themselves and kill is in any way similar to what Greer was going to speak about is fatuous.

I saw that too slaggy somehow, I fear that the tiny study that showed there were brain sex differences is going to be given more credence by those who desperately need it to be true in order to perpetuate their delusions.

I know the thread has moved on since the bit where "male" and "female" brains where discussed, but I came across this yesterday:

Article about how analysis of meta data finds no differences between male and female brains

Isn't that weirdBuffya man and woman say the same thing, yet the woman is harassed and abused for it.Huh.

And by people who identify as women, too. I can't really square this one. They reserve the right to make their opinions known as women, but just can't tolerate other women speaking out. Men can say what they like though.

So, they want to be recognised as women on exactly the same terms as born women, but with the right to discuss matters of moment with the big boys, which born women shouldn't have.

I think I am growing tired of these expectations of what women need to do to avoid harassment even outside hell holes like Saudi and Afghanistan.

I actually think things are changing. The guardian recently has allowed some pretty open debates to take place on these issues, given the support being shown for Germaine Greer and the rejection of no platforming on freedom of speech grounds. I think as one of you said on another thread I was reading, the best thing that can happen is that transactivists will have to explain their position and people will see how flimsy and ridiculous it is. It was great for them when all debate could be shut down completely.

I think that as Huge says, it's a bit dishonest to accuse a feminist of suggesting that by focussing on the physical, that a woman who's had her breasts/uterus removed is no-longer a woman, or that a woman who doesn't do hair and makeup is somehow not a woman.

It seems to me that that's the opposite of feminist reasoning, but skirting close to trans reasoning (that a man without a penis can be a woman, or that a man who looks/dresses as a woman is a woman)

Or perhaps that's just sour grapes on my part - I have all the relevant bits, I've had all the treatment/assumptions made about me, yet by trans reasoning I'm not a woman, as I don't feel like one.

I hope this all blows over soon. I have a fairly feminine son, and I don't want him to think he needs to be anything other than he is in order to be acceptable by society.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lauriepenny/how-to-be-a-genderqueer-feminist#.enqO5wAqx ODFO Laurie Penny. That article is me of the biggest loads of crap I've ever read, up there with Paris Lees banging on about how she loves street harassment.

Isn't that weird Buffy a man and woman say the same thing, yet the woman is harassed and abused for it. Huh.

I genuinely don't understand how it's transphobic to say that transwomen are not women. If you were jumping in a transwoman's face and saying it repeatedly for no reason, well that would be harassment, but the statement itself is a fact not a judgement. In fact if I actually think it's more transphobic to deny that transwomen are trans. In doing so you're denying a big part of their life

And Laurie Penny... Oh yes she is an irritant. An arrogant irritant.

Not sure how this platform-giving works. I mean, there is the right to free speech, but that doesn't equal the right to use university facilities for speaking.
A well-known feminist like Germaine Greer should of course be able to talk at an university.

But I don't think every random conspiracy theorist should have the same right. If in doubt, there's always talking from a soapbox on the streets.

@larrygrylls: Some boundaries have to bet set. In Germany, holocaust-denial is actually illegal, if I am not very mistaken. It sure spares everyone lots of nerves. I am busy enough fighting the blatant lies of misogynists.

That in much of the world women and girls are bought and sold like cattle. Abused, their genitals disfigured, their bodies used as commodities. If you are born a man, you got lucky in life's lottery. If you want to wear a bra and call yourself Lulu, go ahead. But don't trample all over the issues that real women face every day. Same old male privilege, with nail varnish on.

^ I agree with this. If I could 'like' your post, SirVix I would.

I'm watching Little Women atm. Jo March was a strong woman who fought gender norms (so was Louisa Alcott for that matter) but there was never any question about either of them being a woman. I wonder if nowadays they'd be pushed towards trans too?

No one, however offensive their view, should be denied the right to soeak, unless they are actively advocating violence. Free speech is the right to be offensive (including holocaust denial imo). Denying free speech is both a slippery slope and risks creating Martyrs.

Universities should be bastions of free speech. Those who attend them should be up to defending their views.

Laurie Penny is an idiot.

Feminism is too focussed on women, because um, that's what feminism is all about. You know, the liberation of women. I had to step away from the internet for a while when I read that.

Weighty backing there.

Les Green Professor of the Philosophy of Law, University of Oxford has basically repeated exactly what GG has said in his
blog. I wonder if he will be no platformed/abused/harassed.

And nor (I should add) am I comparing Holocaust denial to denying transwomen are women. Absolutely not.

If anyone can come up with some better examples of where they think the no-platforming line could be drawn I would be v. interested.

I'm not at all comparing GG to David Irving; I'm trying to think through when I think no-platforming can be defended and when it can't (in addition to Buffy's encouraging violence point which I entirely agree with).

Profile in the observer today

www.theguardian.com/books/2015/nov/01/germaine-greer-angry-outspoken-feminist-lioness?CMP=twt_gu

Comparing Germaine Greer to a Holocaust denier is repulsive. She is actually the opposite because the Holocaust happened whereas transwomen are men. She should be banned from speaking the truth?

I honestly think that once you start getting all hair-splitty about whose speech should be free and whose should not you're on the slippery slope to people inventing reasons why women should stfu. But I suspect I'm in a minority here.

I don't know, comparing holocaust denial to a talk about "Why Transwomen aren't Women" is somewhat inappropriate.

Saying that transwomen aren't women would be more like saying that the Jewish population is not completely innocent in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

(Though I don't think one could even talk at length about the difference between women and transwomen. Except you live in the US and want to give people the information about basic anatomy they should have been given in primary school, but haven't.)