Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

So Owen Jones is as full of shit as ever he was...

156 replies

CallaLilli · 21/10/2015 10:47

Here's his latest output for the Guardian. Note the penultimate paragraph where he claims to have been victimised by various Twitter feminists and has a very selective memory of what really happened.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 28/10/2015 19:10

Well, Owen Jones has just said on Twitter (after a bit of prodding) that calling people on their sexual preferences is "crass and stupid" and "if you don't want to sleep with someone don't sleep with them", which is nicely quotable as a rebuttal for the cotton ceiling, I think.

MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 24/10/2015 00:47

Ah, thanks, SacredHeart and Elendon.

SacredHeart · 23/10/2015 19:28

Many of those in the stonewall riots were drag queens and trans. As many were people of colour and even in gay circles trans and drag queens are stigmatised their participation has been overshadowed by 'acceptable' white, gay men.

Elendon · 23/10/2015 16:15

This from Stonewall

www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/stonewalls-history

And in the introduction, it specifically states that it was set up to protect LGB

The aim from the outset was to create a professional lobbying group that would prevent such attacks on lesbians, gay and bi people from ever occurring again.

It has adopted trans but obviously the conception was to protect freedom from prosecution to sexual practices other than heterosexual practices.

To be honest, given it's set up was about sexuality other than heterosexual, I'm not sure why trans is now involved, but perhaps someone more knowledgable than me can inform me on this.

MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 23/10/2015 13:10

You know the history of the Stonewall club?

No, I don't. I asked a question because actually, I don't actually know whether or not this is accurate but realised I had assumed LGB activism had pre-dated trans activism.

Not everyone on these threads is apprised of the history, or posting to put the boot in.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheXxed · 22/10/2015 21:18

Your confused.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 21:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheXxed · 22/10/2015 21:10

Well if you read rad fem literature you will see a theme emerge like Sheila Jeffreys, Andrea Dworkin, Germaine Greer, Spivak et al.

Anyhoo I think we are fast approaching peak trans* people are seeing the consequences of opening up women's only spaces.

metro.co.uk/2015/10/07/university-changes-toilets-to-gender-neutral-then-has-to-go-back-on-its-decision-5428058/

slugseatlettuce · 22/10/2015 21:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elendon · 22/10/2015 21:03

radical feminists were once inclusive of trans people.

So glad you acknowledge historical events.

So what happened that this was ignored? And it wasn't all about toilets. Stop with that argument. There are many non gender toilets in this world. Just as there are many single sex toilets. Now I'm off to watch Unforgotten.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheXxed · 22/10/2015 20:46

We realised that trans* ideology is dangerous for women.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 20:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/10/2015 20:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elendon · 22/10/2015 20:22

From radical feminist Andrea Dworkin on "transsexuality"* and from Wiki!

In Woman Hating: A Radical Look at Sexuality, published in 1974, radical feminist writer and activist Andrea Dworkin called for the support of transsexuals, whom she viewed as "in a state of primary emergency" due to "the culture of male–female discreteness". Dworkin asserted that "every transsexual has the right to survival on his/her own terms. That means every transsexual is entitled to a sex-change operation, and it should be provided by the community as one of its functions." She further opined that the phenomenon of transsexuality might disappear in a free society, giving way to entirely new identities.[28]

Obviously this is an historical view, given the term *'transsexuality' because it's now acknowledge that transsexuality can't exist. The accepted term now is to use transgender, because that is real and identifiable.

slugseatlettuce · 22/10/2015 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elendon · 22/10/2015 19:22

There may be disagreements but it is useful to listen to other people's experiences and opinions. Otherwise you end up only listening to people you tend to agree with.

Apology accepted. Smile

LurcioAgain · 22/10/2015 19:20

Ego, I think you're right that it is only an issue for the extreme end of online transactivism rather than for transwomen and transmen in general. The thing that worries me is the extent to which tgese voices are the only ones being listened to - that in some universities or feminist groups or even some mainstream media every one seems to nod along sagely when someone says "using the term FGM is transphobic" or "being a woman is about your internal identity" and attempts to question this are shut down as transphobic.

It feels to me as if these extreme voices are wielding a disproportionate amount of influence.

FloraFox · 22/10/2015 19:12

AFAIK OJ is a cotton ceiling denier, of whom we have seen many. He blocked the women who tried to inform him on Twitter (so much for "I listen to women") so he remains in blissful wilful ignorance while he maintains his outrage at being asked for his views on vagina.

Interestingly but not surprisingly, no Trans activists called him on his rampant transphobia and bigotry against transmen and his literal eradication of their actual selves and the violence done to Trans men by him not accepting man-vag.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 19:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elendon · 22/10/2015 18:58

Such innocence, I may weep.

Real tears.

Egosumquisum · 22/10/2015 18:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.