Could we have a talk about perceptions of SAHP?

I don't think that women are happy with the status quo of carers being treated poorly by society.

But are women happy with the status quo of women rather than men being carers? I am genuinely interested in other views.

Personally, I think it sucks that women always get landed with the caring role, but others would see me as capitalism's handmaiden Maybe women don't want to relinquish caring, but I suspect until men start doing it, it will always get the shitty end of the stick.

It's certainly something I am aware of.
I can only speak of myself obv but as far as I am concerned Dhs salary is "ours"
He could not do his job if I wasn't at home with the DC.
It's that simple.
It bothers me that if he left me for a younger model I would be in the shit (pardon my language!) but I guess I choose to believe he wouldn't do that. You are certainly vulnerable as a sahp.
And yes, it is usually women who take on the caring roles.
I dont know why this is...societal expectations? Gender pay gap? Familial expectations? Probably all of the above.
From a personal PoV I have just done what was best for me and my family at the time.
Can't say a lot of thought went into it! :)

I think we need to make sure that women with caring responsibilities have more support and stability, both financial and emotional. They also need more opportunities to combine caring with other roles, whether that be during or after periods of caring.

I don't think that women are happy with the status quo of carers being treated poorly by society.

Sympathy Badders.

On the broader feminist issue,whilst people dedicating themselves to their families may be lovely and commendable,it is seldom people, is it? It is nearly always women. With the concomitant reduction in ability to earn money and thus be independent from a man, if they so choose. It leaves the man with all the choices - wife devotes herself to family and is left without a career, his career can go stellar and he can move onto another wife/more children, if he wishes.

Whilst respecting individual choices, we do need to frame them within a broader narrative if we want societal change - or it may be that most women now are broadly happy with the status quo? I really don't know.

Almond...it's ok.
People only patronise me once :)
I feel very fortunate in a way that I have been able to be there for mum. We lost dad very unexpectedly and sadly mum then had a heart attack the same day.
Very difficult times.
Ds2 has also had a torrid time if it health wise lately and I am glad I can focus on him and not stress about missing work/letting colleagues down.

Badders, I'm sorry that you've been lonely and experienced bereavement.

I really appreciate it that people dedicate themselves to their families, spending time with elderly family members and children. It transforms the lives of families.

Oh yeah its not always been great i am not the most natural homemaker i did struggle when they were little but i guess we all struggle

I think it's been very positive for my kids.
It's also meant that I have been around for my mum since my dad died.
BUT for me personally it has not been all roses.
I am spoken down to, patronised and treated like I am stupid.
There have been times that I have been very very lonely.
I think I am going to get back into voluntary work. I gave up when dad died and mum got ill but I think I need to do something.

My dds are grown well 1 almost i tried to do bits and pieces as they grew up i did a few college courses short ones and i started volunteering as soon as dd2 went to secondary i wanted to be a positive role model i am not sure that sah isnt a negative for children to see though this is going to sound soppy but if you are a family you do what you can to keep that family running so if a parent stays home and it works for everybody then i can only see that as positive role modeling.

My mum was a SAHM for about twenty years and was an excellent role model. She took care of all of us as well as helping many others in the community. She's very intelligent and political too. And funny. All these things made her a good role model.

Lumela why do you think you were not a good example to your dc? Forgive me if I got the wrong end of the stick but it sounds like you are buying into the notion that you are only a good example if you are directly generating money.

There are loads of different ways to bring up kids and set a good example. Mine have been taught that it's simply a division of labour decision - that their dad and I needed someone to be at home looking after them and someone to earn money and this is how we divided it up. Other families may do it differently. I am trying to steer my kids away from the moral judgements people make about sah.

Have to admit that it hurts me when people treat my time as less important because I am not at work or behave as if I don't have an active mind because I don't have a paid job!

It's something I'm struggling with ATM.
I did take on a pt weekend retail job but with Dhs promotion I have had to give up.
Can't say I'm sorry...rubbish shifts and rubbish pay.
But I would like to use my skills - many years of dealing with people in person and over the phone, sometimes in difficult circumstances - in fact I did wonder about training as a counsellor!

That's sort of a similar position I find myself in.
Dh has just had a promotion - which is great - but it means more long haul travel and with 2 DC in school, I need family friendly hours...just like lots of over people!
I've tried to keep my skills up, have done ou courses, and voluntary work but ime employers don't care about any of that.
No idea what to do tbh

I became a long-term SAHM due to DH's job. There is no way he could have moved into the role he ended up in had I gone back to my old job: he was out of the house 13-14 hours a day and either one or both of us or our marriage would have disintegrated under the strain. He went on to earn far more than I ever could, and we went on to have quite a large family, further complicating my ever returning to work FT. Not that I cared, as my 'career' had not been terribly thrilling.

I did work PT when the DC were small, and am now bolstering up my qualifications while running the house, the dogs and the family. I don't regret the years I spent SAHMing, but I don't think I was a terribly good role model to my DC.

But, as a previous poster said, damned if you and damned if you don't.

I am a forced sahm i dont mean actually forced but i am disabled and i could not manage children and working it just wouldnt be possible for me to manage as dh worked shifts and i needed to be as fit as i could for my children . I resented oh you are lucky you dont need to work or you must be able to afford it or the worst of all urgh my brain would be mush if i sah i do volunteer and work a few hours now but i now get aww least you are keeping busy. Women/mothers imo cant win whatever thsy chose to do.

I would agree with the last poster.
I never had a " career"
I had a succession of jobs.
Some were good, some were awful.
There was never any point to me going back to work once the DC came along as my pittance would not have covered child care (and ds1 was a very poorly baby/toddler so wouldn't have been able to go back anyway)
I am now at a crossroads tbh.
I'm 43, both DC now at school, but I cannot get into my old role (NHS admin)
So...do I accept it, or re train. But, as what?
I wish I knew what I wanted to be when I grow up :)

I think the perception is that an awful lot of SAHPs fall into one of two categories - previously working in low-paid jobs so it isn't financially viable for them to work as their pay wouldn't cover childcare; and partner of someone very wealthy who has a cushy life not doing very much.

Taking parenting out of the equation, both of those groups are regarded fairly negatively anyway. The SAHP aspect is just a lightening rod for it.

It's still the case that in many partnerships, if the woman doesn't stay at home then no one stays at home. The two options seem to be Working dad, working mum or working dad, stay at home mum. I think if more men would take on the SAH role then a lot more women would feel happier about pursuing a career - it is definitely easier to throw yourself into work when childcare is solidly covered by a parent (rather than paid childcare which is costly, limited and can let you down). It doesn't necessarily need to be the woman at home.

Fascinating thread.

My sister and I have some mutual (good-natured) envy. From a similar starting point (Oxford degrees) she is now a glittering high-flier, whilst I started off on a highflying trajectory but am now in a boring part time clerical role as a result of various circumstances/house moves/divorce. I am envious of her career success (but lack motivation now I'm 50 to do anything about it), but she is envious of the time I have with my family. We both have teenagers, mine are boys, hers are girls. Interestingly, her girls despite being very bright appear to have no desire to emulate her success and are resentful that they don't see much of her and she has had to miss lots of significant events in their lives because she's been in Tokyo or wherever. They say 'why can't you make us a roast dinner like RoastedNuts does!'. In turn my boys say to me, whilst enjoying their roast dinners 'why don't you do something better with your life'.

Can't win really.

I think my biggest concern, and one of the reasons I've always had something going on the side when home with the kids (and I've been really lucky with that) is that whilst I doubt we will ever split (or something happen to DP), if we did, I need to be able to support myself and half the kids (you know what I mean)

The courts may have moved onto a presumption of shared custody, but so many people themselves haven't and it just seemed such a risk to let DP's career reach heady heights and leave mine to stagnate. I see it as insurance - just like the life insurance we have so that if something happens to either of us, there will be income to cover a nanny.

justgoandgetalife: If dh told me to get a job to contribute after I've been out of the job market for years, I'd LTB.

Seriously, though, it's a phrase to look out for because every single woman I know whose dh suggested they get a job found their dh was having an affair...

The thing is, why do people's eyes glaze over when you say you are a SAHM? I know people who say they are a "writer". Writer indeed. They have self-published something or been on a creative writing course and are as much as a SAHM as anyone else yet the writer title suddenly makes them a more interesting and worthy person. Actually the most interesting conversationalists I know are a) a pianist b) a professionally unemployed bloke (hmmph) and c) a SAHM.

I agree. The ideal is that we both work and both share childcare. I don't think my dh has had it easy either - there is a lot of pressure in being the sole earner!

The way society has been structured, you'd be forgiven for thinking only women have children and men just accommodate them. In actual fact, both men and women have children and so the working world should take that into account. To my mind it makes very little sense for one person to take on all of the paid work and the other person to take on all the childcare. That only means that both of them are missing out. The working world needs to be structured to take into account the fact that people have lives outside work and that they need time to deal with other responsibilities, be that children, parents, pets, or just their own development. The situation where women had children and were then basically prisoners in the home is a ridiculous one, and I don't think in the long run men benefited from it any more than women did.