Radio 5 phone in on consent at 9.00am

Would any of you attend a course on how not to be an abusive parent?

Absolutely. I imagine such a course would probably include a good deal of reflection about unconscious bias, appropriate behaviour management for challenging situations and behaviours, all kinds of things that one cannot assume one knows from a limited experience of life. Different children have different needs - what's fine for one child can be experienced as abuse by another. I'd welcome the chance to think about this and work on strategies with a professional who is equipped to guide and assist.

Yes, I read that just now, after posting. Some people just don't think the rules apply to them, and if their parents never thought to educate them they are at real risk of becoming rapists through lack of awareness. In that case we can't be sure the boys parents didn't try and educate him though. All the more reason for the courses.

This is worth a read:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/17/a-letter-to-the-mother-of-the-boy-who-raped-my-daughter

yes, I'm currently immersed in rolling out learning disability awareness and personality disorder awareness in my organisation, in one role. In another role I was attending a training course in one of these. That day massively added to my notions to how best do the role-out process. The temptation to sit with crossed arms just wasn't entertained.

Looking further back up thread, the driver/re-test analogy just doesn't fly, when you consider the number of really bad drivers out there, who are utter strangers to the highway code. Drivers self-perception of themselves as 'good drivers' only usually goes so far as 'what they know' about driving, rather than 'what they should know and actually do'.

Though just because someone objects to going on such a course as this doesn't necessarily mean they are in most need of it, just gives rise for a quizzical look at them.

I had to go to a training session this week on something which I am expert in and has been the sole focus of my work for the last 10 years or so. I could have made the presentation myself. I also had to do an assessment at the end to make sure I had understood it. Everyone in my workplace had to do it and it never occurred to me to object as a) I might have learnt something and b) it was compulsory. I didn't learn anything much from the presentation itself but the conversations it prompted were useful and enlightening. It would have looked very bad if I had objected to going. I can see why it would cross someone's mind that they didn't need to go to the consent workshop, but no excuse for not thenn realising that if everyone else does they do too.

This item is not just simply about not being a criminal larry - I'd assume it's about not being an assumptive knob and getting to grasp that particularly as a young person there are errors in conduct toward others that can easily be 'educated' out. Esp. I'd guess that many of the young people at colleges simply do not have a hinterland of relationships and experiences to use as guides.
And of course many young men will have absorbed lessons from their various role models that allow unwarranted approaches and actions toward women and girls.

And yes MrB is highly performing tosser.

If you fail the course, it will be flagged up.

These courses could save institutions such as universities and hospitals millions of pounds per year on litigation. Yes, let's put money first because that's the juicy carrot.

What it also does, is give the person a clear definition of consent. This clear definition is what everyone gets. It's safeguarding the institution. It's safeguarding the individual, both those who serve and those who receive.

in that case, nor does a course.

No Larry, you are missing the point I'm making spectacularly.

The course is common sense, it's not teaching me anything, merely providing certain scenarios and getting you to put down your opinion. It's not meant to 'catch anyone out'. I don't get all defensive because I have to do it.

Of course a consent course is needed in university. It should be mandatory anyway in institutions that require written consent for procedures, such as the NHS. Being the bearer of high intelligence does not preclude you from ignoring the express wishes of others.

Elendon,

Your safeguarding course, again, is not teaching you how not to abuse children. It is teaching you to keep them safe from others and spot signs of abuse. It is not remotely the same thing.

Every year I have to do a safeguarding training exercise. It's mostly -gasp- common sense I do this without hesitation, as do others, but no one thinks or says 'Well, I'm not a paedophile, child sex abuser, child abuser.' It's compulsory anyway.

Women are trained to believe that sex is a male right, that overrides their feelings towards a healthy sex life. Because you know, that Prince is going to rescue you and take you for his bride and you are going to fall in love with him.

"Women have been trained to know more about consent because they are the ones whose boundaries are more frequently crossed."

Sadly, this isn't always true. There are women who have a skewed view of consent. For some a course like this would be a revalation.

These work courses, by the way, in equality and diversity, are about large corporations protecting themselves from law suits. They are often offered by the most racist, sexist organisations. Courses often make management feel secure in continuing unacceptable behaviour rather than combating it.

The problem is in the title. Basically this is a course in how not to be a criminal. Would any of you attend a course on how not to be an abusive parent?

Relabelling the course as a positive relationship course and opening it up to both sexes would allow the same message to be delivered without condescending to intelligent young men.

And most young men do not spend their life agonising over consent. They have merely had mutually enjoyable sexual relationships, Good parents and schools have ensured this.

Courses like this can be useful if properly marketed. However assuming that an intelligent young man is a bit 'rapey' if he does not want to be preached and condescended is an incorrect assumption.

Each year at my work, every one of us, from most senior management to most junior probationer, regardless of age, sex, race or religion is REQUIRED to attend these 1-2 hr courses:

. Equality & diversity (but I'd never discriminate and I'm a BME woman)
. Integrity in business (I'd never accept or offer bribes, or break laws)
. Emergency evacuation procedure (I knew most of this by age 10)

Similar content each year, mostly common sense & ethical behaviour, but noone seems to feel insulted.

An employer, like mine, can make attendance at such annual courses mandatory for continuing employment.
So, all educational establishments should have mandatory annual age-appropriate training and refresher classes for:

. Consent & respect
. Equality & diversity

Well, he's ensured that the thing he's most fearful of (a false accusation of rape) is not going to happen. Because he's not getting near any of his fellow female students. Because he doesn't get it - that he made that sign says everything. Because, of course, he is what a rapist looks like.

Women have been trained to know more about consent because they are the ones whose boundaries are more frequently crossed. I'm not just talking sexually, either. So, in the interest of appeasing the equalists (are they an actual group yet?), there could be sessions for each sex. However, I think the focus of any Q&A would be massively different.

And I am not a bit surprised that it was MB on the phone in. He's another one to stay away from.

Yes, the health and safety/diversity/money laundering training is a very good point.

I also had to do money laundering training when I worked at an investment bank (even though I was in HR, never had any dealings with money/investments). Funnily enough, I didn't feel the need to stand with a placard saying "This is not what a money launderer looks like."

Everyone in my office has to do compulsory equality and diversity training. This is partly because management think it is genuinely a good thing and partly because Investors in People accreditation requires it and evidence of having a policy is needed for public sector tenders.

We also have compulsory annual training on money laundering. I'm not aware of anyone taking offence at either of these.

In both cases much of what we get told is obvious and common sense but that doesn't stop there being the odd "Oh I hadn't thought of that" moment.

The man talking on R5 was deranged claiming that most rapists have been abused by their mothers?? Where the fuck did that come from?

The man who attempted to rape me at University wouldn't have called himself an attempted rapist, I'm quite sure. He would've have called it 'trying his luck' or something, no doubt. He was my (then) boyfriend's best mate, who took advantage of a situation, and the fact that I trusted him. He only stopped because my boyfriend came back unexpectedly.

Everyone can benefit from this sort of education, but it shouldn't be left until University, it should be tackled long before this.

"Because if he thinks he knows all about consent, but really doesn't, then it's anyone he sets his sights on who will be affected."

I appreciate your concerns but speculating that everyone who doesn't go doesn't know about consent is just wrong. What about the man who definitely DO know what consent means, but still decide that the workshop is not for them?

What's his story other than his hilarious blog? I imagine him to be bitter because no woman ever went near him, always getting lower grades at school than the girls in his class, frustrated that he didn't amount to what he felt he was entitled to be, wholly inadequate in the sack and has shit patter, but thinks he is great company and everyone else just Doesn't Get It.

Am I close?

Do you think he knows how chillingly creepy he is, and he loves the fact that he is sinister and frightening, and the power it gives him?

Or does he really think that he is a decent man and can't understand why all us man hating feminists can't understand that?

Oh it was Mike Buchanan! Well, that doesn't half explain it.

Mike Buchanan - of course. A knob of the highest order with a chip on his shoulder the size of a redwood tree. Well, he would say that wouldn't he?

He's the rentaquote go to for any media wanting an MRA view.