Radio 5 phone in on consent at 9.00am

Oh yes Abbie the women can't think for themselves get out of jail card free.

Oh yes ,abbie let us never point out women can be vile too. And don't forget to ignore everything else I've said on this thread when you pick up on a point.

I think other posters have commented on the fact the course is not aimed exclusively at men.

Plenty of women leapt to the defence of Evans. There are plenty of women whose thinking on consent and their attitude towards other women might need a bit of help too.

Yes women do police other women's sexual behaviour. Now, I wonder why that would be....?

The unfathomable evil of women is my guess since socialisation doesn't exist.

lass - this isn't a place where you're free to say what you want. Its bad enough if you're a man - but it really rattles their cage if you are a woman.

As 99% of sexual violence is carried out by men I think we are on safe ground to suggest that this is an overwhelmingly male problem.

Yes women do police other women's sexual behaviour. Now, I wonder why that would be....?

Thank god you're here, Lass. I was worried that the thread was going to continue without anyone saying that girls do sexy harassment worse than boys so what's the problem?

Tbh I'm too a bit questioning as to your investment in 18 yo people understanding the concept of consent.
When you actually discuss this with adult men who have actually been convicted of rape ( yes, this isn't just about this subject) there is often a confusion in their thinking, as every other message they have received has told them they were doing nothing wrong, eg the Ched Evans example and numerous others.
fwiw I'm a male and my 18 yo self had a context of understanding, but I would def. have been illuminated by education in this, and would not have dismissed it as irrelevant.

So, just why are you so keen to refute the need? Open question.

Absolutely it is:
the responsibility of men to not harass and assault women

Slight derail but women can be extremely judgemental about other women's sexual behaviour. The female bullies at my school could have learned a lot from being told there is no correlation between your worth as a person and whether or not you are having sex.

It's one compulsory hour of training for both sexes. At the very minimum it will bring home to students that no longer being in school doesn't mean the end of compulsory attendance at things you might think are boring and/or irrelevant.

I don't have an issue with Larrys suggestion of re-branding the title of the course.

Sorry, Scallops, I misread your post.

Absolutely it is:

the responsibility of men to not harass and assault women

I don't think it should be the 'responsibility of men' to ensure that women go about their everyday lives free from harassment. It should be the responsibility of each human to ensure this right. Unfortunately, we live in a world were men do take on this responsibility, therefore giving them the 'right' to ignore safeguarding 'because they know all there is to know about it' by the time they are 18, presumably after a lifetime of social conditioning.

He should not get to decide though, that's the problem. He is not the server. He is the receiver.

I really wonder why you want to defend this man so much. His rights aren't being encroached on, whereas women's are. Where is your outrage for that?

He should not get to decide though, that's the problem. He is not the server. He is the receiver.

He is displaying a lack of care about the problems women face. Just like he would if he refused to go on an E&D course. It makes you wonder why that would be (and ergo, is there in fact a correlation).

That aside, it is the responsibility of men to not harass and assualt women. Women don't get to opt out of being harassed and assaulted. Just like black people don't get to opt out of being racially discriminated against. The very least men could do is to try and understand how their behaviour impacts women.

It might.

"His desires coming above the needs and rights of women to go around in a safer environment free from sexual harassment and assault."

But his desires aren't coming above the needs and rights of women, it's a separate thing. His decision not to go to the course doesn't mean that women can't go around in a safer environment but you're talking as though there's a direct link between the two.

Outrage is the position of the privileged when those less privileged ask to be taken into consideration in their interactions.

Oh and good post Buffy.

And I might well be digressing, but the airplane evacuation is an excellent analogy in that the majority of the passengers knew that those trying to get their stuff out from the overheads was going to endanger them. They assisted the flight crew in stopping this.

Other people have explained this up thread, Don't. Not sure why you are needing it again and again.

His desires coming above the needs and rights of women to go around in a safer environment free from sexual harassment and assault.

Just like those not wanting to take compulsory courses at work are putting their wants above the rights of others to work in a fair environment.

Nasty feminists, how dare they suggest that it might help men to have some clear direction on this.

Or even better, how dare they suggest that young people who are embarking on quite possibly their first sexual relationship dare to equip themselves regarding consent and thereby safeguard themselves.

"But he's certainly displaying certain characteristics which would make me think he wouldn't take a woman's wishes into consideration over what he wants."

Can you develop that point further because I don't understand what characteristics make you think that?

Fido,acing is supposed to be 'displaying'. Interesting autocorrect there