Radio 5 phone in on consent at 9.00am

Why would you think you couldn't report? A lack of policy doesn't mean you are somehow banned from reporting stuff. Although the difference is minimal because I agree you need a clear policy to let people know HOW they go about reporting.

I don't think that's a slight difference, I think its a big difference. Without a clear policy, how will students know that they can report and that they will be taken seriously?

Its why schools all have anti-bullying policies, and in most (possibly all) schools the policy is detailed on the school website.

It seems that people can report it at that university but there just isn't an official policy on how to so so. A slight difference but yes they should have a proper policy in place.

xpost!

Yes, but you can have mechanisms in place so that the information of those who DO want to report it can be collected and collated. If you don't have any mechanisms, no-one can report.

Having said that I find it shocking that a university of all places doesn't have some kind of formalised policy for anonymously reporting something like this.

You can't ensure that something gets reported to you, that's always a choice on the victims part. They don't need to report it but then that means nothing can be done.

Well, when I think about all the times I've been harassed, I reckon I've reported around 1% of them. And really, when I think about it, there are so many incidents that I really SHOULD have mentioned to someone. Like the guy who ground against me for ages on a packed London tube carriage when I was in my early 20s. Or my ex-boss, who was a sexist pig. Why didn't I? Because I knew they wouldn't be taken seriously. Because I didn't have time. Because I kind of accepted that these kinds of incidents were just going to be a background to my life as a woman in public space. What about you?

I think the university thing is that some institutions haven't put in formal procedures to ensure that incidents are reported to them, as well as to the police. It's the old thing about the place of the crime not really 'mattering' - even though (as in the case of universities) there may be all kinds of institutional/cultural issues that permeate that place that make rape there far more likely than elsewhere (lad culture, for instance).

Is it that they don't report them or just don't have a formal procedure for reporting them anonymously?

I like the idea of a 'food look'.... internetting while eating!

Might have a "good" look instead of food look

Thanks holly got the links will have a food look when I get home.

Don't - the NUS have been campaigning in this area for some years, and they are the source of much of the data in this area.

Hidden Marks, 2010
www.nus.org.uk/Global/NUS_hidden_marks_report_2nd_edition_web.pdf

That's what she said, 2013
www.nus.org.uk/Global/Campaigns/That's-what-she-said-summary-WEB.PDF

Lad culture audit 2015
s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/nusdigital/document/documents/16504/Lad%20culture%20audit%20report%202015%20formattedFINAL.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJKEA56ZWKFU6MHNQ&Expires=1445444704&Signature=HTIX9U6v0lKHPpBKGFYIM1ih4OI%3D

There is a real lack of evidence of the prevalence of sexism on campus, however, because it turns out that a lot of universities don't actually record incidents, even when they are as serious as rape. Obviously, a lot of wider harassment falls into a class that isn't reported at all, even informally, yet it still does damage.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/britains-elite-universities-dont-fully-record-allegations-of-rape-or-sexual-assault-10274020.html

If it had been the 1980's survey there was a few issues with it, which is why I wanted to clear up whether it was or wasn't. For starters based on the question being asked is too broad, as it would define having consensual sex after a few drinks and then regretting it the next day as rape, even though it wasn't. Also 73% of the women the survey identified as being raped specifically said they weren't raped, and 42% of those the survey identified as being raped continued to have sex with their rapist in the future. Not saying that the 1/4 figure isn't accurate, but as the survey had a few anomalies and was done over 30 years ago in a different country, I'd prefer something more recent to base things on.

I am recognizing rape. I'm asking if I got the right survey or not. Greenwood said no and that she'd look to find me the one she was referring to.

"Well, that'll be because legally that would be rape.

I thought everyone understood everything there was to know about consent, so workshops were insulting."

And there we have it.

Exactly the problem with this bloke's attitude summed up in the total lack of recognition of rape.

"Greenwood I went to have a look at the survey you discussed but I didn't get any results on google for that phrase, the nearest I got was a survey in the 1980's and one of the questions was "Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?" (Koss, 1988; Koss, Gidycz, and Wisniewski, 198", and if the person answered yes they counted that as a rape. Have I got the correct survey or a different one?"
Well, that counts as rape because it is rape............

You've got a different one, the one I read was very recent. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.

You've got a different one, the one I read was very recent. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.

You've got a different one, the one I read was very recent. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.

"A white MC young man decides that, far from trying to solve an endemic rape problem, what the workshop is actually doing is accusing him of being a rapist."

Well it sort of is. There whole point of the workshop is to educate people about what consent means, so the implication in asking a person to go is that you aren't sure they know what consent is. And while I appreciate that you have no way of knowing, it's still going to be offensive to someone who does know, the idea that others are doubting them.

Greenwood I went to have a look at the survey you discussed but I didn't get any results on google for that phrase, the nearest I got was a survey in the 1980's and one of the questions was "Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?" (Koss, 1988; Koss, Gidycz, and Wisniewski, 198", and if the person answered yes they counted that as a rape. Have I got the correct survey or a different one?

Donthave - you haven't actually come up with any valid criticisms of the workshop at all. Your opinion seems to be 'he shouldn't have to go if he doesn't want to" and 'it probably won't work anyway' - although how you can know the latter is beyond me- you're just guessing.

Surveys have shown that young people in particular are poorly educated in consent. Survey questions such as 'Is a man justified in forcing a woman to have sex because he's bought her drinks all night/dinner?' shockingly come back with positive responses - from memory approx 1/5 though this was justified or acceptable.

The way to change these attitudes is through education about consent - and for it to have any effect at all, these workshops need to be compulsory. If students can choose to attend, then the message will not be getting through to everyone. And it needs to.

Criticise away.

However, what you've done for 9 pages isn't criticism, it's defending a young man who has decided not to do a consent workshop because he thinks he doesn't fit into some rapist's worldview. He quite literally doesn't think he looks like a rapist, and that is why he's not going to engage with the workshop.

No one has asked you to provide alternatives, so, your repeated statement that you don't have to shows that you aren't reading what people have taken the time and trouble to write.

Nobody is asking you to help thinking that there would be better way of tackling the issues, I'm pretty sure there are better ways, why do you keep suggesting that we're asking you to stop thinking that?

To explain again:

There is a ridiculously high incidence of sexual crime on campus.

There have been studies that have shown that when the word rape is removed from the equation, university age men will admit to having engaged in behaviour which is rape, possibly due to not having a well developed idea of what consent looks like.

A possible solution for this is that men at uni attend a workshop that helps them to explore what consent really looks like.

A white MC young man decides that, far from trying to solve an endemic rape problem, what the workshop is actually doing is accusing him of being a rapist.

He writes a pretty poor article for his student magazine, which promotes rape myth after rape myth and has a picture taken of himself holding up a sign which states that he is not what a rapist looks like.

What no one has done is suggested that the consent workshop is is a panacea which will solve campus rape.

What we have done is discussed why his refusal to engage with it could be problematic, and what you've done is state that we think it's all going to solve everything, but that, because he says he's not a rapist and knows everything about consent, he doesn't need to attend.... which, to me, looks like you are refusing to engage with any of the points raised in any meaningful way. My apologies if I have read every single one of your posts wrongly.

If he doesn't look like a rapist, who does? What does a rapist looks like... maybe only those people should attend a workshop?