Why isn't rape a hate crime?

Thanks binary.. point was already made, 4 posts in. Try RTFT?

Ettr, men can be raped too

Ignore me, woken with a head of feathers this morning, will put the keyboard down & drink more coffee...

Very probably.

"too drunk to say no at the time, but with regrets the next day".

Rape myth.

And yes, technically in the eyes of the law, if 2 teenagers are absolutely wrecked & have sex, one is deemed too drunk to have given consent.

And it's usually the girl/woman.

Being able to produce an erection isn't a sign of consent in that scenario either.

But I digress....

Maybe I should have said "too drunk to say no at the time, but with regrets the next day".

Still not a hate crime....

Both too drunk too consent? . Only one person in that scenario has the responsibility not to stick their dick in a woman. Are you suggesting they are too drunk to consent to raping someone? Just because someone is drunk it doesn't mean they suddenly acquire a sense of entitlement to penetrate someone who hasn't consented. That mindset is already there.

Are you explaining why you think this or are you asking me whether I think this

Neither, I'm stating a fact.

It's possible for someone to murder or rape someone without it being a hate crime.

That's the question isn't it. Are you explaining why you think this or are you asking me whether I think this? Or neither?

treating an evil, violent, oppressive act as a hate crime.

But who gets to choose which evil, violent, oppressive acts are hate crimes?

Should we lump in Murder, abduction, GBH (acid in the face for example), child abuse - is Rape any worse than those?

I can punch a black man in the face - doesn't mean it's a hate crime, he may just have spilled my pint. It's possible for someone to murder or rape someone without it being a hate crime.

If you start to treat everything as a "hate crime" then surely it becomes meaningless....

Who is talking about treating everything as a "hate crime"?

People are talking about treating an evil, violent, oppressive act as a hate crime. That's not everything. That's not even every crime.

Why wouldn't all examples of men raping women be a hate crime?

Having sex with someone when you're both too drunk to consent could be one maybe?

Or possibly because it's possible to commit an act on a person (rape, assault, theft) without it being a hate crime as Lass explained above.

If you start to treat everything as a "hate crime" then surely it becomes meaningless....

Why wouldn't all examples of men raping women be a hate crime? Genuine question btw.

I find it extraordinary that someone shouting racist abuse to a random black person can be convicted of a hate crime, but someone shouting sexist abuse to a random woman can't. Sex and race are both protected characteristics under the Equalities Act, but sex isn't included in the hate crimes legislation (why can this be, I ask myself, rhetorically).

I don't think all examples of men raping women would necessarily be hate crimes... It's a v. interesting point but I need to think about it more.

And yes when men rape women it is a hate crime lass, just like when a group of white guys beat up a black guy it is a hate crime in the way that beating up a white boy wouldn't be.

Because of systematic oppression, because they are raping the person because of their sex.

Kondo's post up thread explains that really well.

Of course rape is a hate crime. It has been used by men to subjugate women for millennia. Just because some men are raped too does not negate that.

Lass, can't you count ?

I think our actual laws are good, they just aren't handing out sentences that they can. The maximum sentence for rape is life in prison in the UK. We legally recognise that rape is serious. Does anybody get life though? Do they fuck! Even if it's a rapist who has committed multiple rapes and it's aggravated by GBH etc you aren't looking at life. Not even close. This, to me, is where it needs to change. Why have a max sentence of life if you never enforce that? Or even close to it ie in line with murder or GBH etc?

I don't think it can be a hate crime because it isn't just against women. I don't mean this in a way about "what about the menz" but it's a crime that's committed against the more vulnerable. This will often be women but there are children (both sexes) and men too. I don't think it is a hate crime. I think it's a fucking horrible thing that deserves the life sentence attached but, personally, don't see it as a hate crime against women. This may be personal situations making me feel that way though. I certainly wouldn't tell you that you were daft for thinking so at all, it's a valid point.

OP if you had said courts are too lenient or fail to understand the motives are more than sex I completely agree.

I wasn't saying "what about the menz" I was trying to distinguish between a rape that was an "ordinary " rape and a rape that is aggravated as a hate crime.

If all rape is a hate crime then the term "hate crime" is meaningless in relation to that crime.

Although, I suppose you would have to demonstrate that the rapist hated women as a class and not just their individual female victim

Yes you would. Which could backfire spectacularly. Rapist says "no, I don't hate women, hell, I don't even hate this paricular woman. I was just too drunk/ carried away/ couldn't stop, but I don't hate woman. I'll plead guilty to rape but not if you try it as a hate crime"

I get what you are meaning OP but in the context of what the law defines as a hate crime it doesn't work.

It took 4 posts before somebody said what about the menz

Christ, it never ceases to amaze me how utterly dense some people are