What are you reading right now?

Bronte on Austen

"Why do you like Jane Austen so very much? I am puzzled on that point. ... I had not seen Pride and Prejudice till I read that sentence of yours, and then I got the book. And what did I find? ...a commonplace face; a carefully fenced, highly cultivated garden, with neat borders and delicate flowers; but no glance of a bright vivid physiognomy, no open country, no fresh air, no blue hill, no bonny beck. ... These observations will probably irritate you, but I shall run the risk."

"Now I can understand admiration of George Sand ... she had a grasp of mind which, if I cannot fully comprehend, I can very deeply respect: she is sagacious and profound; Miss Austen is only shrewd and observant."

There is more in that vein.

Mark Twain Mark Twain. “Everytime I read ‘Pride and Prejudice’ I want to dig her up and beat her over the skull with her own shin-bone,” He also said a good library was one without a single Jane Austen book in it. And, comparing her to Edgar Allen Poe, whom he also disliked, he wrote: “I could read [Poe’s] prose on salary, but not Jane’s. Jane is entirely impossible. It seems a great pity that they allowed her to die a natural death.”

And Woolf Virginia Woolf “The chief reason why she does not appeal to us as some inferior writers do is that she has too little of the rebel in her composition, too little discontent, and of the vision with is the cause and the reward of discontent. She seems at times to have accepted life too calmly as she found it, and to anyone who reads her biographer or letters it is plain that life showed her a great deal that was smug, commonplace, and, in a bad sense of the word, artificial….

I don't think you can play Top Trumps with writers.

You either like them or you don't.

You might find this site interesting. Some of the writers include Austen, some include Dickens, some have neither and some have both.

John Irving has 2 Dickens and no Austen. Peter Carey , who won the Booker twice, has 2 Dickens and no Austen but maybe he isn't interested in reading and writing.

www.toptenbooks.net/all-author-list

So ALass, could you give me a depiction of women empowerment in Dickens?

Is that the only criteria which makes a book worthwhile?

One of my favourite novels is 'The Poisonwood Bible' by Barbara Kingsolver.

However, I'm reading 'And Then There Were None' by Agatha Christie atm.

I shall look up 'The Story of the Lost Child' it sounds good.

I'm reading the last volume of Elena Ferrante's Neapolitan novels. The last and fourth one is called The Story of the Lost Child. A beautiful and subtle account of female friendship and female sensibility. I don't want it to end!

She's been compared to Austen but especially to Flaubert - the novels are essentially a four part Bildungsroman but clever, funny, wise and warm.

So ALass, could you give me a depiction of women empowerment in Dickens?

Because, I can even do this in Shakespeare's writings.

And I bet you think To My Coy Mistress is a wonderful poem.

Not true!

Charlotte Bronte admired Austen, Mark Twain said he couldn't possibly compare to her wit (and meant it) and Woolf - have you read A Room of One's Own?

Yes, every major literary prize winner cites Austen above Dickens as the standard

Oh I see , it's now only writers rather than readers . And every single one. In every interview.

Charlotte Bronte, Mark Twain and Virginia Woolf weren't fans of Austen.

Oh and Persuasion. A wonderful late novel, in that Austen dares to write that men should not be persuaded nor influenced by social conditioning.

Austen is our best literary writer of all times.

Yes, every major literary prize winner cites Austen above Dickens as the standard.

Northanger Abbey was Austen's first novel to be published, penned when she was 21. Such was her greatness. It's a skit on the Gothic novels of the time. Ultimately the premise is that a young woman should rely on her own beliefs and not be influenced by others.

This is a feminist book, as are all Austen's books. I can't think of any books of Charles Dickens' that promoted feminism.

A Tale of Two Cities obviously.

Pickwick Papers is nonsense.

and she remains the favourite of all those who enjoy writing and reading

Really and truly? Every single one of them?

You obviously haven't read Northanger Abbey or Mansfield House by Jane Austen

*I have read Northanger Abbey - that's the Austen version of Android Tale of Two Cities in that it's the one which departs from the usual style and the one haters of Austen or Dickens are more likely to like.

Jane Austen is the greatest literary writer this country has ever known. Her wit is unparalleled, her originality of writing via observation is stellar, and she remains the favourite of all those who enjoy writing and reading.

Dickens, by contrast, is a trader of mawkishness, populism and narcissism*

In your opinion.

I'm not a fan of Dickens either. I remember trying to read Pickwick Papers, off the back of Little Women referencing how good it was - couldn't do it.
I have managed to read Oliver Twist, and Great Expectations, but it was a struggle. Haven't managed any of the others in full.

ALass You obviously haven't read Northanger Abbey or Mansfield House by Jane Austen.

Jane Austen is the greatest literary writer this country has ever known. Her wit is unparalleled, her originality of writing via observation is stellar, and she remains the favourite of all those who enjoy writing and reading.

Dickens, by contrast, is a trader of mawkishness, populism and narcissism.

Ah yes, shove - I wasn't meaning to in any way dis Edith Wharton, more referring to the Janet Evanovich side dish.

I've never been able to take to Dickens although I've very much enjoyed film and TV versions of his work. So maybe it's me and not him! But generally I find him too mawkish, too cartoonish, too......Dickensish.

Wilkie Collins on the other hand I adore. He is criminally underrated in comparison to Dickens AND he produced one of the best female characters in English literature in the shape of Marian Halcombe.

What I'm reading now is not at all feminist (Les Liaisons Dangerouses) but I just finished Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl which was terrific, difficult but a fluid read and eye opening.

Not books, but just watched The Railway Children Lady, which is a play about EE Nesbit's life - absolutely fascinating. I'd no idea she was a founder member of the Fabian Society

She wrote wonderful ghost stories too. I saw this play about that aspect of her life at this year's Edinburgh Fringe.

m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/what-s-on/theatre/fringe-review-edith-in-the-dark-1-3852192

I really must put a word in for Dickens. I'll take Dickens' huge, sweeping canvases over all social strata with characters from all social classes in Bleak House, Our Mutual Friend , Great Expectations and Little Dorrit over Austen's genteel drawing rooms any day.

I think Bleak House is one of the greatest novels written in English. The structure is like nothing written before- a huge panoply of characters ranging through all sections of society from Jo the homeless street child to the aristocratic Dedlocks and set in locations from the Dedlock country estate to the horrific slums in the Tom-All-Alone's rookery and everything in between. There are complex separate narrative strands told by 2 narrators , which never fully intersect but run in parallel. It is a brilliant book. Yes the death of Jo is sentimental, it's also very moving.

In Our Mutual Friend Dickens makes amends for Fagin in the sympathetic Jewish character Riah who is as good as Fagin was bad.

As for Fagin, Oliver Twist, as was the norm, was published in parts. A friend of Dickens, Eliza Davis, complained about the numerous references to "the Jew" and Dickens stopped the printing. The text was amended and although Fagin is referred to as "the Jew" 257 times in the first 38 chapters, this is barely mentioned in the next 179 references.

The other famous accusation of sentimentality is the death of Little Nell- which occupies a tiny proportion of the book. There is nothing sentimental in Nell and her grandfather's nightmarish journey through the heavily industrialised Black Country to the peace of the village where she dies.

The description of Dotheboys Hall in Nicholas Nickelby is harrowing, especially knowing it was based on the real- life scandal of the Yorkshire boarding schools where unwanted illegitimate or handicapped children were sent , basically to be forgotten. Dickens may have sentimentalised Smike, a real life Smike would have been horribly brutalised by the treatment he receives , but there was a purpose to that. Smike had to be a sympathetic character.

Yes Nesbit led quite the interesting life!

I'm reading Jo Baker's Longbourn.

Not books, but just watched The Railway Children Lady, which is a play about EE Nesbit's life - absolutely fascinating. I'd no idea she was a founder member of the Fabian Society.

I'm just reading Ancillary Mercy now. I've really enjoyed them, tbh I actually didn't really register the default 'she' when I read the first book (didn't know anything about it, DH was given it as an xmas present last year), so it evidently didn't affect my enjoyment of it either way . . .

was going to add that although the default "she" is just world building background, I do find it quite a pleasant background effect

I found it irritating and affected- she can populate her novel with whatever characters of whatever sex, gender or species she wants. For me it didn't add anything. I gave up about 1/4 through.

Start with Ancillary Justice, then Ancillary Sword before Mercy - it's a trilogy so Mercy may be harder to follow out of sequence.