SAS hell week

Shutthatdoor special forces are also constantly training, so they don't have the opportunity to fall out of shape. Male or female.

has he ever seen how many men fall out of shape after boot camp?

Not sure they do in special forces as I believe they are reassessed continually.

And as someone else pointed out, if the SAS had women then there would be some idiot "white knight" man who felt it was his duty to protect the woman and that could result in completely screwing up whatever the mission was. And why are women responsible for men's behaviour if this imagined scenario ever actually happens?

I didn't say it wasn't hard Want2bsupermum. There are plenty of situations already where women stop their periods. usually those situations aren't great physiologically for men either.

I'll have to look up the article, but does anyone remember the two American women who recently passed the Army Rangers tests? They are allowed to have the badge, but aren't actually allowed to be Rangers.

Anyway I read an interview with one of the guys who trained with them, and he said in the beginning he didn't think they could do it, and then one day he was struggling with his packs and didn't know how he was going to make it up the hill, and one of the women took his pack for him and actually lifted two full packs up the hill (same weight and size as the men were carrying). He said after that he never questioned her suitability to be there and would be happy to fight beside her. He said she was tough as nails.

No offense to your brother Want2BeSupermum but has he ever seen how many men fall out of shape after boot camp? And the Rangers or SAS isn't something you're in for decades, it's something you're in for maybe 5 years max. Lots of professional female athletes go that long with no periods.

poyu, dear, have you ever heard the quote "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."?

You might want to ask your mommy, or whichever woman you normally whine to about how unfair your life is to embroider and frame it, and then place it above your computer screen so that you don't fall into the trap of making yourself look like a complete fuckwit in front of people who know more about the thing you're presently whinging about than you do. Or, you could make it yourself. Or, you could just go and whine to your dudebro pals that you're an utter idiot.

Don't care which, just get it done.

With the speed of 1000 gazelles. As they would have told you endlessly in Phase 1.

Ive spoken to my brother about this. He has a green beret and is currently in the army. He said it's really hard because, while you have allow anyone to apply, the issue comes in that in his experience women struggle to stay fit enough once in. He also said that the training is brutal and he expects most women probably stop their periods over a sustained period. No one knows the long term affects of this and my brother said they probably don't want to be the ones to find out.

My brother then made a very interesting point. He said that if captured he expects he would be hit, starved and sleep deprived. He said a female POW would most likely be raped and its probably this reason as to why the army are hesitant to allow women in.

"There are plenty of other armies who are OK about having women as well as men in combat roles."

Off the top of my head there is Russia (or the USSR or whatever) and N.Korea.

Interesting how the "non-feminst" countries are the ones which actually treat women equally in regards to military and don't seem to have problems with white-knight idiot male soldiers screwing everything up trying to save their female comrades.

Why are some men idiots like that? I partly blame chivalry and I partly blame old Disney movies.

Doing better than others in a fitness test is one thing.

Actually doing the job is another.

If she got the job she would start complaining sooner or later it was too much for her and they would have to make amendments for her (eg make her backpack lighter etc). And if one woman was let then there would be pressure to let more and more women in. And you know what would happen- sliding slope- the SAS would then be watered down with lots of women who demand that they be treated more lenient and given less challenging tasks than the men.

And as someone else pointed out, if the SAS had women then there would be some idiot "white knight" man who felt it was his duty to protect the woman and that could result in completely screwing up whatever the mission was.

I didn't mean they weren't at the frontline, I meant it was the reason used by the SAS - not that women can't and don't do those roles.

This is UK troops as well. There are plenty of other armies who are OK about having women as well as men in combat roles.

Ah, grimble, they are 'possibly' going to consider allowing women into combat roles. Sadly I don't think I know anyone who thinks it will happen, but the tide has slowly been changing for thirty years, so who knows. They have allowed women to fly fighters (with the acceptance that killing people at a distance is allowable, just not up close and personal).

It's not a misconception is it, plays? It's semantics. Everyone is well aware that women are embedded. We are saying the same thing. The women are right on the frontline in exactly the same position as the guys. The technicality is that they are not allowed to apply for the jobs, role, and regiments that the guys are. When I use the word 'technicality' it doesn't mean I approve of that fact, just that, well, it is unfortunately still a fact. Despite the fact that to all intents and purposes, they are doing the blooming job alongside the guys (and getting blown up for it).

When I say 'women aren't in combat roles' I mean by name. I don't mean they aren't physically there on the frontline getting killed and maimed. That's what makes the 'no women in combat roles' political bollocksery so stupid.

Yep grimble...

I'm also really quite aware of what roles women have been playing, in the front lines, for many, many years now. They might not wear the 'combat' badge, but they still get killed and maimed in exactly the same ways as the men who do have that badge. So, still going to laugh at people who say it. Not so sure my friend who lost limbs will though... will ask her when she gets away from this run at Headley.

I'm sorry if that sounds snarky to you, Mad, it's not meant to be, it just pisses me off that women I know have been serving in every role imaginable, embedded with every regt/corps/service you could name, and there is still the misconception that they aren't in combat roles. It's one of the greatest lies told about female service personnel, it pisses the serving women I know off a fair bit too.

I thought the Govt was changing the rules next year to allow women in combat roles? Anyone else think that?

Technically they aren't 'combat' troops though. The women on the frontline are all medics, eng, int, everything else, in exactly the same place, wearing exactly the same gear (sometimes carrying more - medics for example) subject to the same dangers, but technically not combat troops. Very definitely front line, though. That technicality is the sticking point.

Well that's also a good point Plays! We must be imagining all those women killed in the line of duty all over the world.

I think the question is why not, carol decker.

There was a thread a few months ago about women in the infantry which basically went along the lines of how DiscoGoGo described.

"Not that it would have been impossible, just that it wouldn't have been allowed to happen." That's how I view it (and wish I'd had that articulation on that infantry thread!). There seems to be this mystical almost superhuman quality given to these roles (especially the infantry) when talked about in the context of women entering these echelons. Yet fairly average men seem to be able to do the roles. Fit strong men. But just men.

Sorry, actually going to point and laugh at anyone who can say that women aren't in frontline combat roles with a straight face.

Women can't join the SAS as they are currently not allowed in frontline combat roles.

I suppose the woman winning against 25 blokes should have been my first clue it wasn't real lol. Not that it would have been impossible, just that it wouldn't have been allowed to happen. Did I say that out loud? Oopsie.

Lol, partial. Yeah I just looked it up. It's just a reality tv programme, they aren't recruits at all. I was wondering if I had woken up in some parallel universe and they were really were trialling women recruits officially and I had somehow missed it. No, it's an endurance testing reality show, where they apparently have training and testing from sf troops around the globe including torture sessions, which is nice.

I was beginning to sweat a bit at just how out of touch I really was...

So I will slink orf back under my rock.

It looks like a jolly jape though. And fair play to the woman (women?) who got through it, although I rather suspect that the recruiting for the programme would have selected the biggest male egos they could find, in order to make good tv. (This is a total guess based on how reality TV works - the men would have been egotistical twats, all mouth and skimpy trousers, all gym bunnies, and the women would be nails and have something to prove. I'd love to be proved wrong!) And you don't look for ego in that game really. which is lucky lol, because none of them were trying to actually join...

Good grief, ignore anything I typed, madwoman obviously knows far more than I ever will ever know (no irony or sarcasm)

Wasn't SAS Hell week just a reality telly programme?

Doesn't the real training take 30+ weeks? (from Wiki)

Give the various roles SAS officers maybe have to undertake, it would make a heck of a of sense to have more than a few females in their ranks. (Maybe they already do)

As usual, I am typing with no authority at all.

I've no idea which programme you are talking about but there have always been women who have carried out sf roles. The specific determination against women in certain regiments or jobs has all sorts of political and cultural rationale (most of which is bollocks, and I in no way agree, but the existence of the excuses aren't exactly a new thing.)
I speak as someone who tried to get into the Marines at 18. and who experienced a good many years of being a female in the military trying to push gender boundaries.
Things are changing slowly. When I applied to join the mountain rescue team I was told no, men only. Because the wives wouldn't like it. (Seriously.. A few years later they were forced to accept women.) I was turned down for a promotion because the other person in the running had a wife and child to support and therefore needed it more than me. Repeated accusations in timed runs that I must be cheating as I couldn't beat the men. Lunch where entertainment was belly dancers and I was repeatedly told to join in. Assaulted in a work bar. Dinners where I had to leave the dining room on cue for the men to light up cigars and drink port in peace. Told I had to run the babysitting service for senior officers. Ach, it's endless. But having had to sign a contract that stipulated if I got pregnant or married I would have to leave, it's not like it was a surprise to me.

Someone linky the program?