Raping Asian girls worse than raping white girls because it 'harms their marriage prospects' :o

Oh ignore me. I'm not explaining myself very well at all. I can see BrandNew's point of view. I also wonder if this had been a white girl and the judge had stated some cultural aggravating circumstances in sentencing whether it would have even been noticed.

Misogyny and racism are very important issues that should be tackled - but is it right to do that by telling some women that their rape, their pain do not matter as much as another woman's?

Old shilling, I think you meant to write that you are not sure if the offences would cover oral rape of the 13 year old.

Rape applies to oral, vaginal or anal rape.

But I also see what BrandNew is saying about the actual impact on the victim too and how the twin oppressions of racism and misogyny impact black victims of crime.

I have to say I'm a bit with BrandNew. I was uncomfortable about the 'what about white girls' because I don't think is about the victims at all. I don't think Asian victims are being privileged over white victims (they are still being raped for a start). I don't think the impact of the rape on the girl was actually a genuine consideration.

This is all about the men. How they view rape. How they view how worthy a victim is. What the impact of rape is on them. How rape is viewed in relation to them.

It's also about perpetuating racial stereotypes which will only continue to damage Asian women and girls in the long run.

This isn't about oh poor little white people. They aren't relevant here
Sorry but they are relevant. This decision is ,amongst all the other things wrong about it, basically reinforcing the idea that certain white girls are just trash.

YonicScrewdriver it's not really clear what was done to the 9 year old. She wasn't raped, at any rate. Nor was the other child.

I'm not sure if the offences would cover something like the older child performing oral sex on the offender, while the younger child was present. But there was no penetration involved, per the offence descriptions.

Signed and shared

^^ Yonic Raping TWO children deserves at least 20 years, imo plus castration
There should be a bigger gap in sentences between non-violent crime and rape

Yonic I didn't think impact on the victim up until now included harm caused by her family.
However, I understood that the recent change to the law, which was applied in this case, was because politicians intended the impact to be more reflected in the sentence. Of course, as usual, they didn't think through the consequences

If a widowed old woman is raped, can we expect more lenient sentencing because there may be no men around her to be negatively impacted?

I think he should've been in jail for way more than 7 years, one of those girls was 9, FFS.

The girl suffering problems at school and shame over what happened could absolutely apply to any school-aged rape victim, of any culture.

To make it specifically about her culture and her father's worries about her "marriage prospects" is to officially approve that culture for placing shame and disapproval on her. It is also to imply that such attitudes are simply to be expected and accepted in the Asian community.

I don't deny that that attitude happens; it is just not the business of the law to distinguish between the importance of different girls' suffering on that basis.

Bosky, here is the full review, which also mentions the direct impact on the girls with respect to their schooling (point 8) - it's not just about the marriage prospects, although these are included, IMO wrongly.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/r-v-ul-nasir-judgment.pdf

Just...wow. It's not great for anyone's future prospects to get raped really is it?!

I agree murder is a very different crime and the victim is dead. It was an analogy. The point is, however, this ruling isn't about the impact on the victim as an individual, but about the impact according to the expectations placed on her by others and their feelings about her value.

If what I described happened with a murder, it would be the exact same process.

Bosky, as I said upthread, I disagree with the judge.

In murder, the victim is dead: there can be no variance in impact on the victim.

BigChoc, impact on the victim does play a part in sentencing, I think, not just aggravating factors such as abduction alongside the rape.

And ANOTHER thing. It's racist cultural stereotyping. You can be Asian, Muslim and still not adhere to the traditional cultural norms referred to here. Though that attitude to women as property that must not be despoiled very much does go on, it doesn't mean every Asian person/family is like that. Some are open-minded, prefer their daughter to make her own choices, recognise her rights in law to marry freely etc. and they are being grossly misrepresented.

^^ OTheHugeManatee

We own our bodies. We are not to be bought and sold, like used cars, or scrapped as worthless junk.

To compare, if you look at murder, the law does not treat you more or less leniently depending on the culture of who you murdered and how important the murder was to the mores of their community. It says a life is a life is a life. Imagine if a judge said "I'm giving you a heavier sentence because you murdered a Welsh person, and Welsh people are more bothered about losing their loved ones."

Fucking outrageous.

We can only take at face value the reasons the judges clearly stated, in the trial and then the appeal, rather than assume they are lying.

Aggravating circumstances that affect sentence are always something the criminal has done to aggravate his crime, not something the family and community of the victim have done, or are expected to do, to the victim.

Particularly when it's rape. Imagine. A man rapes you and then - if he is punished at all - a judge factors in how much you're now worth to other men and if they'll be less likely to want you.

Exactly, and it is saying to women "and it is right and respectable that that is how you are valued".

No. All women should have equal value, to each other and to men, in the eyes of the law, on the basis of being an individual human being.

Signed and shared - this is rage worthy.