Gender Identity Specialists warn of “ever increasing tide” of Transwoman Sex Offenders

Thanks Whirlpool - apology accepted.

Romcom... people only tend to get flamed if they make a series of truly egregious bullshit comments, so I reckon you're fine

Or if they're pretty obviously MRE douchebags here on a windup, because there's nothing more fun than creating an account on a parenting website just to be ridiculous at feminists, now!

Yes that was me, I am sorry romcom. I read your post as "women do it too" and got annoyed, but having reread it I can see what you meant was that cutting off a penis is no guarantee that a sex offender will not offend. I completely misread what you were getting at with your post.

I am sorry I misunderstood and went off on one, so I hope you can accept my apology and stay.

Thanks Jenny, Playswell, Yonic and slugs.

I have lurked a bit in the feminism threads over the last few months and it's raised my awareness of some issues I hadn't given much thought to, transgender politics being one of them. DH and I watched 'Side by Side', a documentary about the transition of the film industry from celluloid to digital film, this morning. The Wachowskis (formerly "Brothers") were interviewed and I initially thought Lana Wachowski was Andy's wife. DH and I ended up having an interesting discussion afterwards about femininity and how different Lana Wachowski's take on it was compared to, say, with Caitlynn Jenner's hyper-feminine but slightly plastic take on femininity, which seems like femininity seen through a male gaze/filter. It's not a conversation we would have had a few months ago. Anyway, in saying that, I've probably offended someone else now and will get flamed.

"It would be a shame to leave a whole board, just because of a single post on a single thread, if you are a feminist and want to debate"

Absolutely agree.

I remember that too, Jenny.... and also can't remember where I read it, but it would have been during my forensics rotation.

So, yes, rape in the UK can only be perpetrated by men, due to the need for a penis.

But serious sexual assault can be perpetrated by both sexes, although, again, mostly by men.

It would be a shame to leave a whole board, just because of a single post on a single thread, if you are a feminist and want to debate.

I agree with your point RomCom and think it was probably misinterpreted, if the other poster was replying to you.

There have been studies done in other countries where sex offenders were chemically castrated prior to release.

They reoffended at the same rate of serious sexual assault, and used implements to penetrate their victims.

I don't have a link to it, because I read it in a book in the olden days, before the internet was widely available. But I think this was fairly well known about sex offenders.

You always get one don't you.

If that was directed at my post, you misunderstood my intent. My point was that removing make sex offenders' genitals doesn't make them much or any safer around women. If you chose to interpret it to mean that women offend too, then that's on you. Although it is true.

I can see why most other MNers gove this board a wide berth, tbh. That was my first post in here and will probably be my last. Which is a shame, because I consider myself a feminist and am interested in seeing issues debated.

Lol, Flora... that clarifies everything.

The concept of pretending to be a transwoman cannot exist if a transwoman is a man who says he identifies as a woman.

"We can't pretend that this conflict does not exist."

Quite.

Tiggy are you still calling women ciswomen these days?

Another thing that Raymond says which was a lightbulb moment for me is that femininity and masculinity are two sides of the same coin.

I was scratching my head trying to figure out why many MTTs seem to have been hyper masculine (and often quite conservative) before claiming that they are in fact women and then go on to take on a hyper feminine stereotype. All they are doing is flipping the gender coin. Both sides are misogynistic - be it hypermasculinity or hyperfemininity, so again not surprising that a certain number of this population will be, um, misogynists...

I'm not saying this applies to all MTTs of course.

I guess we'll just have to see how it all pans out.

I think there's going to be a lot of trouble before (hopefully) a middle ground is found that protects everyone.

Ego we know though that there are terribly large numbers of pervy men who will try all sorts of things to gain access to women and girls when they are in vulnerable / undressed type situations.

I really think it's very naive to imagine that they won't see this as an opportunity to get their jollies.

In the old days they had to set up cameras, peer over doors, drill holes in walls and doors, hide, and so on. Now they can (in theory) just walk in.

See this is where this whole pretence that transwomen are women, rather than men with feminized bodies, leads us.

Now we have to figure out who is a genuine transwoman and who is not. Who is "deserving" of the trans definition of womanhood and who is not (oh the irony...).

And so far the only rule I'm aware of is that a genuine transwoman is someone who says that they feel like a woman. The rule is that "woman" is a feeling and an identity that is seperate from biology. That is except when it is not. And it is not when transpersons wish to distance themselves from transwomen (male persons who say that they feel like women) who behave badly. Then the rule (that lowly born women must respect, that a women is a feeling) doesn't seem to apply anymore. How convenient.

All this makes me think of Janice Raymond's highly perceptive analysis that transgenderism is an expression of a profound "othering" of women and a fetishisization of us as a collection of body parts rather than human beings.

And therefore to me this rush for genderists to claim that there are genuine and non genuine transwomen is lacking in intellectual honesty and critical analysis. IMO all transgenderists objectify women and fetishize our body parts. The fetish is not a sexual one for all but it is a fetish all the same and most certainly a deeply dehumanizing objectification of girls and women. I don't think it is surprising that there would be a relatively high number of sexual predators who form a subgroup of a population of males who dehumanize and objectify females and who fetishize female body parts. Indeed it would be surprising if that were not the case.

I think the trans movement needs to be honest about this but I'm really not holding my breath.

"Would it help to have a special prison wing for people who are MTF transgendered - not in a male prison setting and not having access to vulnerable females either?"

1. Money, too expensive
2. If sexual violence is rife in male prisons then what about all the other people at risk of sexual violence / being subjected to sexual violence why shouldn't they be protected?
3. As others have mentioned this is a no-go as it makes a distinction between them and other women

I mean I would say that there must be pragmatic solutions around this that protect everyone, but they are unacceptable to some unfortunately.

You always get one don't you.

Rape can only be committed with a penis in UK law, incidentally.

As for the rest.

The vast vast majority of sex offences are committed by males.
Women and girls are far more at risk of sexual violence from men and boys than from other females.
There is an additional risk with male on female sexual violence of pregnancy, which takes a terrible situation (sexual violence) and makes it immeasurably worse.

Yes women sometimes sexually assault other women, men, children.
They do not do it at anywhere approaching the same rate as males.

So what are you suggesting.
Either segregate all prisoners from each other entirely - as they are all at risk of being either abused or abuser
Or remove the distinction entirely and mix men and women in prison together. Yes that sounds like an excellent plan (if you really hate women).

Presumably that violates their right to be considered female.

The problem is that the rights of two groups of people are conflicting. I think for a mtf transgender who has gone through surgery, to be forced to be placed in a man's prison would be horrendous but I also think that women prisoners should not be forced into sharing space with a man who identifies as a woman but still has male genitalia. We can't pretend that this conflict does not exist.

Would it help to have a special prison wing for people who are MTF transgendered - not in a male prison setting and not having access to vulnerable females either?