Charlotte Proudman

Ok. Asking to connect is more akin to writing an email introducing yourself than it is connecting on FB. More to follow...

I don't have a profile on there Yonic, no.

Mide, have you ever used LinkedIn?

I can't be bothered with LinkedIn but everyone has to have a profile on it. I was looking at hers late on Thursday night and one of the groups she is a member of is some obscure socialist group.

I clicked on it and by mistake added myself as a member- which would not be appropriate for my profile. I couldn't remove myself on the mobile site and blasted laptop was in the process of downloading endless Microsoft updates. Finally disengaged from the group at just after 2 a.m.

We were talking about it in the office. Reactions from 2 of my female partners and 1 female assistant were he is in the wrong but her way of dealing with it was wrong too and it would put them off instructing her.

If I ever have need of a human rights lawyer, I'll be calling on Proudman. She isn't afraid to stand up for what she believes in.

And really? Linking in on a professional networking site is inviting some bloke to comment on her looks? Really?

As an aside, I once looked into doing a masters in human rights. The old white guy who ran the course arranged a meeting with me. I was nervous and young. He looked me up and down, told me the way I held myself wasn't confident enough and therefore he wouldn't be happy with me on his course.

Right.

So a person who is a member of a political class with the most power on the planet and teaches human rights thought if fitting to look down on somebody who was not a member of the ruling political class ( a woman) and chastise her for not holding herself confidently enough.

To give you an idea of the kind of thing Proudman must deal with all the time...

The Linkedin business connection wasn't unsolicited or uninvited. The sexism and misogyny, however, certainly was.

While I think what he said was sexist and particularly stupid. She contacted him first, it wasn't unsolicited or uninvited.

I have mixed feelings. It's career suicide for her.. perhaps.. because sexism is so entrenched and women are very much hated.

On the other hand, it's wonderful that she thinks the way she does and I feel relived that women like her feel so strong about sexism that they speak out. Specializes in FGM as a human rights lawyer. She's full of integrity. I hope this helps her career, not hinders it. I will be interested to see how this pans out for her.

Proudman explained herself why it's misogynistic:

'The eroticisation of women's physical appearance is a way of exercising power over women'

As an isolated incident, in a vacuum, you may have had a point. In a patriarchal society where women's appearances are policed, commented on above all other aspects (e.g. politicians' shoes), rated out of ten for fuckability and all the other shitty little things, it's not just 'not agreeing' or 'not liking' some behaviour. It's yet another example of men thinking they have the right to say these things to women, completely uninvited. It betrays their own ridiculous thought patterns that a) women's purpose is predominantly decorative and b) men have the right to treat them as such. This is the very basis of objectifying women. It is treating women as not full human beings. That's the contempt.

JAPAB wrote - "You cannot deduce that I hold "contempt" for someone just because I behave towards them in a way you do not agree with. I could disagree with you that it is wrong, just be ignorant, be lacking in social awareness, or just have a skewiffy sense of propriety."

One is less likely to treat people with contempt if one makes more of an effort to minimise one's ignorance and lack of social awareness, but I know that some people just find it much easier to make excuses instead, and to treat women's rights as a "debate".

BuffytheReasonableFeminist

1. You seem to be using a definition of sexism along the lines of "something happening to a woman that she doesn't like".

1. You cannot deduce that I hold "contempt" for someone just because I behave towards them in a way you do not agree with. I could disagree with you that it is wrong, just be ignorant, be lacking in social awareness, or just have a skewiffy sense of propriety.

LuisCarol
The evidence is that bit you just said about not replying like that to men. It's right there in that sentence you just wrote.

Yes, I made the point that a heterosexual is unlikely to find members of the same sex "stunning", only members of the opposite sex, and therefore you would not particularly expect them to describe them thus.

I think you are on a sticky wicket deducing sexism from the fact alone that a heterosexual man would describe a woman as stunning but not a man. I've been known to describe Angelina Jolie as "stunning" (or similar words to that effect). I feel no need to lie that I find some man stunning because someone else has the notion that I am being "sexist" otherwise. Although that said, if I was to voice my thoughts to Angelina on her Lindekin page you could certainly say that I have been inappropriate.

Assuming that the speculation made by another poster that he would not have described a man as stunning is correct, this is not enough "evidence".

LyndaNotLinda
As far as I am aware, misogyny means hatred or contempt of women.

I know, I know I shouldn't be shocked. But I'm older so didn't grow up with the internet and if I knew someone was a sexist knob I just didn't talk to them.

And DH is not like that at all so I think in some ways I've been insulated from exposure to these men.

Although DH and I watched a bit of 'it was alright in the 70s' last night and I'd forgotten about what passed for normal when I was a child.

Really Chrysanthemum5 . The fertility thing is just bizarre. I've had short hair virtually all my life and I'm pretty certain I was 'fertile' .I've been called deranged. Fairly certain it wasn't for short hair though!

I find that and Proudman's situation interesting. When people claim women police women about their looks, where do they think that comes from? Hmm. Let me think now... Oh yes! Men. There we go.

Ok I've just googled women short hair men as mentioned earlier in this thread. Apparently my short hair is a sign that I'm damaged and less fertile. And to do something to my own hair that makes me less attractive to men is a sign that I'm deranged.

I just can't get that idea out of my mind - that my own appearance/body are not mine to do with as I want.

I don't think you understand what the word misogyny means JAPAB