Charlotte Proudman

Aah you took it to mean that. Cool!

That should really have said Women have understandably always been nervous of challenging sexism. They know what comes with the territory.

Women have always been nervous about challenging sexism.

YY Hovis.

SAKTURA - reference to "The old white guy " could be construed as agist and racist by an overly sensitive old white guy.

Did you actually read sakura's post. He had all the power in that relationship. He is in the dominant class. Sakura used the word old to demonstrate that he had power over because of age (she was young) and white because being a white bloke is top of the food chain. Nobody is discriminating against him. What is someone like that making comments like those, doing teaching a human rights course. But yeah his feelings may be hurt. That's the important thing.

And there is no such thing as reverse racism. HTH.

Various posters on different threads have said that it was all well and good for her to send him the reply she did, but she shouldn't have plastered it over Twitter. I think she's fantastic for doing just that because if she'd just left it between them then a) she would only have challenged the behaviour of a single man and b) he would have been able to just shrug it off as a silly woman being silly.

Except, of course, the media and indeed public reaction has touted the latter view as the widely accepted one. But I comfort myself by thinking that nothing changes if people don't speak out...

I actually do believe it is possible for a man to compliment appearance and in his mind he just wants to say something nice that he hopes will make the recipient feel flattered, or otherwise have something in his mind that is not being represented accurately by some of the things being imputed in this thread.

We're endlessly aware of your beliefs around this subject. You had, what I believe in the vernacular is called your arse handed to you on a couple of threads about it before. Just because you believe it's possible it doesn't mean that it is, what it does mean is that all the women you meet are a bit creeped out by you. HTH

I know, I don't have the Testicles of Objectivity. Just a lifetime of being a woman on the receiving end of men's masculinist agendas, which obviously doesn't count.

I mean, how much 'evidence' do you need to pronounce someone or someone's actions misogynistic? Do they have to wear a little badge? Shout 'I hate women' before every sentence?

His behaviour is, to me, indicative of certain unpleasant underlying preconceptions about women and their value to him. I don't have a signed confession by him that he thinks all women are sluts, no. Misogynists don't tend to announce it explicitly IME. You have to read it from their words and actions.

And I can see a difference between telling a celebrity you think they're pretty in a social situation of some kind, and responding to a business connection invitation with what may as well have been 'hurhur phwoar'. It wasn't a compliment, it was a power play. A compliment is designed to make someone feel nice about themselves. A power play is designed to put someone else in their place, which is inevitably below the power player. By reducing a woman to her looks in a business situation, she is put in the 'decorative/fuckable' box, which is below the 'full human' or even 'equal-footing business contact' box.

I suspect, however, I may as well be talking to myself here. Not having sufficient evidence and all, and merely sounding great

YonicScrewdriver, one can understand what someone else is saying without agreeing with it. And no devil's advocacy here. I actually do believe it is possible for a man to compliment appearance and in his mind he just wants to say something nice that he hopes will make the recipient feel flattered, or otherwise have something in his mind that is not being represented accurately by some of the things being imputed in this thread. Hence my belief in the need for more information before the charges are made.

Not sure where the random question marks came from there

I've noticed that -there's a lot of them about.

JAPAB...

Actually, no. I don't believe you don't understand the points already made and suspect this is the Devil's Advocate Dance (12in remix).

Change the record, hmm?

NiNoKuni
As an isolated incident, in a vacuum, you may have had a point. In a patriarchal society where women's appearances are policed, commented on above all other aspects (e.g. politicians' shoes), rated out of ten for fuckability and all the other shitty little things, it's not just 'not agreeing' or 'not liking' some behaviour. It's yet another example of men thinking they have the right to say these things to women, completely uninvited. It betrays their own ridiculous thought patterns that a) women's purpose is predominantly decorative and b) men have the right to treat them as such. This is the very basis of objectifying women. It is treating women as not full human beings. That's the contempt.

Which is all great-sounding but you cannot deduce that an individual man thinks like this just from the fact that he complimented a woman's appearance.

I mentioned above that I have been known to do this for Angelina. If I'd ever met her in all likelihood I would say nothing, but let's say that in a fit of over-enthusiasm I had had said something about how pretty I thought she was, while it might suit a feminist agenda to represent this as me demonstrating my misogynistic contempt for her and women generally, and my desire to exerciser power over her and deny her full human status and so on and so forth, that just would not be a fair and accurate representation.

You could say that I needed to learn to keep my aesthetic thoughts to myself however, but the rest of the deductions about what I think would be insufficiently evidenced at this stage.

Not sure where the random question marks came from there. I definitely wasn't suggesting it was a question.

Apparently the guy wrote the following on Facebook last year on seeing a picture of his daughter working out in the gym:

'Whilst I should not encourage lascivious comments about my daughter ... Yeee gods she is hot!!'

His daughter FFS. He sounds like the sort of creep you would want to take a shower after shaking his hand??..

To put this indcident in a personal context if she was my sister or close friend I'd be horrified how hard she had worked to then face this nonsense. I'd also conversely be extremely proud that she tackled it head on.

If however the guy was my dad I think I'd have to change my name, it was cringe inducing embarrassment.

The most disapproving of her amongst my female colleagues thought it was an engineered publicity stunt to increase her public profile.

I really don't think she will be short of work because of this. Maybe some people will be put off briefing her but those working on forced marriage and other women's rights related cases, which is clearly her preferred area, are more likely to be impressed by her stance.

Can I just say how much I love the irony that she has an inbuilt response to the "tut tut, why are feminists worrying about such minor things when forced marriage and FGM exists?"

She knows and will come to know quite a few influential people who woukd admire and respect her all the more over this episode, I'm sure working under Michael Mansfield QC will trump publically embarrassing some solicitor. And like many have said, pissing off the Daily Mail is a huge plus for many.

And I'm sure Cherie Booth QC doesn't feel like she's in a bin and had a failed career, even if Cherie Blair wasn't liked by certain sections of society.

SAKTURA - reference to "The old white guy " could be construed as agist and racist by an overly sensitive old white guy. Ms Proudman was absolutely justified in making the comments she did but NOT going public on Twitter any more than this old white guy is going public on Ms Sakura's potentially agist and sexist views. Ms Proudfoot, rightly or wrongly, has been portrayed as vindictive because she had the linguistic firepower to flatten her "Adimirer" but chose instead to name and shame. It's a tragedy; she'll live to regret this and may well end up in a bin next to Cherie Blair. It'll be long remembered by those with clout and influence, that she's trouble. The adage 'it's not what you know but who you know' is at the centre of the legal profession

So if I sent an email to you saying "Dear Mr Mide, I am writing to enquire if there are any opportunities for Mide Inc and Screwdriver Ltd to work together. Please visit www.screwdriver.web to learn more about our team and our services and drop me a line if you'd like to follow up, yours, YonicScrewdriver"

Then any response from you saying:

"I looked up your team and saw your photo, this is horrendously politically incorrect but what a stunning photo"

Would absolutely be unsolicited as it is thoroughly outside of the context of my contacting you.

Fair enough Yonic I understand and I'm not excusing his behaviour, just don't think it can be called unsolicited. Not that it really matters.