I thought this was an interesting piece of art. It's an image of veiled woman but the image is made up of pornographic stills.
Two sides of the same coin as already mentioned.

I disagree with Jeanne that women aren't over sexualized. Women are positioned as the sex class. Here to adorn men.

I think we are talking cross-purposes.

I agree women are positioned as the sex class.

But, to me, that's not to do with women's sexuality at all.

Over the past fifty years, there have been some advances in seeing women's sexuality as a genuine, real thing. There's been some recognition that women might enjoy sex. There's been some recognition that women don't owe men sex, even in marriage. There's been acknowledgement of equal marriage. There's been some legislation against FGM. To me, those things have to do with women's sexuality. I don't think they are evidence women - or society - is 'over sexualised'.

I'd worry that, if we say that emphasis on sexuality is the problem here, we'd also censor those positive changes.

You have to wonder why many women take their lessons on beauty or "sexiness" from porn stars.

After all, what intelligent woman would want to hook up with boys/men who spend their time dribbling over their keyboards? These sorts of boys/men are locked into eternal adolescence.

If you look at the numbers on Google of world searches, porn peeked at June 2013. The numbers continue to be around this area to this day. If June 2013 was "100", then January 2004 was 25. In other words searches for porn are 4 times greater in the world than January 2004. We are looking at an epidemic for our world society here. What does this do?

Generally porn simply makes women sexual objects. They become something to "have". I agree with your observation that there is over sexualization right now. That means many women spend lots of their time looking pretty, exercising, and attempting to basically look like porn stars.

I worry what porn will do to the younger generation who has such increased access that previous generations didn't have. Cell phones, ipads, and such are making porn extremely available and I forecast that the use of porn will be more available to the younger generation.

its part of the backlash. As women make in roads into equality eg better pay, Equalities act, laws surrounding rape etc, then there is a backlash to keep us in our place. One of those methods is increasing objectification of women through porn, clothing etc.

I disagree with Jeanne that women aren't over sexualized. Women are positioned as the sex class. Here to adorn men.

*0x530

It's not misogynistic to get a sneaky peak of a woman going about her independent life. This puts the voyeur in the subordinate positon.

It's misogynistic to put a woman in a position where her sole purpose is to satisfy the make gaze and/or cover up because of male sexuality (especially when covering up is grossly inconvenient eg while breastfeeding).

It's mysoginis

I doubt we have higher levels of disposable income than ever before, but, even if we do, I don't see how it's relevant. The idea of disposable income at all is recent, isn't it?

I struggle here, because it seems to me what you're arguing boils down to the idea that people (especially women) have more choices to perform femininity and/or enjoy sexuality, and that this leads to more misogyny.

I agree with you there are some correlations between things women spend money on, and things that are harmful and misogynistic. And I agree that capitalism is, by and large, anti-feminist. But it seems to me that misogyny has not really changed its modus operandi for centuries, and to link it to passing fads in capitalism is to minimise the influence of that long history.

Zero, that's exactly what I mean - a woman of ANY age and appearance, not a posed photo.

I picked painting ceilings as some men do this topless and it was the first thing I could think of. Agree it probably wouldn't be news! But say it was a stock photo illustrating a DIY story.

(painting a ceiling, maybe) then they wouldn't be there to satisfy the male gaze ie for sexual titillation.

i am not sure about this, if she were dressed normally painting the ceiling that would add the added i am getting a sneaky peek attraction, for some even better.

Now if it was me with tits around my waist painting the ceiling i might agree with you.

Or if page three ever showed a topless women without surrounding it with a lot of misogyny.

Zero, if page 3 featured Breastfeeding women or women of any age who just happened to be topless whilst going about life (painting a ceiling, maybe) then they wouldn't be there to satisfy the male gaze ie for sexual titillation.

Patriarchy wants to see our sexy nipples in the paper, ridicule their purpose and surround it with a lot of misogyny.

Patriarchy would prefer women did not breastfeed in public because the nipple is too sexual.

No they both address the over-sexualisation of the nipple which seems to be dictated by what men would prefer.

#Free the nipple tried to say what the hell is so sexual about a nipple. Why can't we go topless or breastfeed.

# End Page Three campaigns try to say what the hell is so male-dominated about a topless woman. Page three reduces a woman to a brainless thoughtless body which is damaging.

aren't these campaigns mutually exclusive, one saying "why can't we see nipples", the other saying "we don't want to see nipples in our paper".

I don't think the West is over-sexualised. Historically, I don't really see the evidence for it. And I don't agree with the idea that, if there were less emphasis on sex, there would be better attitudes towards women.

Some of the changes in Western culture over the last few decades, with regard to sexuality, are pretty positive (eg., equal marriage, the idea that women have sexual agency, focus on female orgasm, challenges to the shame-culture around sex before marriage, etc.). Others are more negative (porn on the net, though obviously porn isn't new; promotion of sex work as a good thing, etc.).

What we need is to retain the positive and lose the negative. We need a more open and accepting attitude towards sexuality, not a more repressive one.

surely we all have a choice to dress and act in a less sexualised way if we choose. We are not programmed robots.

Rogueantimatter
I totally agree that equality re childcare needs to come from the patriarchal design of the workplace that has decided only women should go pt and men are assumed to go ft.

The workplace should be designed to recognise that all employees who have families M or F are entitled to more flexible hours pt work.

We have been through a technological revolution yet work life has not followed suit.

.

#Free the nipple tried to say what the hell is so sexual about a nipple. Why can't we go topless or breastfeed.

End Page Three campaigns try to say what the hell is so male-dominated about a topless woman. Page three reduces a woman to a brainless thoughtless body which is damaging.

There are campaigns out there. Ultimately something may shift.

The west has only be over-sexualized since the 60's sexual revolution
is an incorrect statement, looking at the over-sexualized restrictive corsets and emphasis on hiding ankles.

Covering-up and over sexed-up are two sides of the same coin. It tells women their bodies belong to male sexuality and need to be controlled.

Oh, and I assure you free childcare and maternity leave IS support. It's MASSIVE support.

Not sure what you would think of as a traditional society, but I've lived in Qatar and the UAE for 10 years, and South Korea for 1 year. These women do not receive anymore support then women in the West, in fact, they receive less. In the UAE I received 45 days of maternity leave (better then the US I suppose, but nowhere near as good as the UK), I don't get things like home visitors, or lactation consultants or any of that stuff. I'm friends with a lot of Emiraiti women, and, while they usually go and spend 40 days living with their Moms after the birth, the information and support they get from their families isn't on par to what we have in the West.

South Korean women had it even worse, as they were still expected to care for their husbands and extended families, regardless.

The pressure to look good and be sexually attractive is just as strong in these cultures, it doesn't change depending on what you wear. If anything, the levels of plastic surgery in the Middle East are far higher then they are in the West.