Misleading campaign trying to con the UK about the horrific level of domestic violence committed by men against women

"But responsibility can only be accepted if a person knows how to respond correctly. Some people genuinely don't. Or their sense of reality is so screwed their (wrong) response seems correct."

Ye-es... that's another way of saying they're mentally ill... which still equally applies to men and women, yet men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violence. There's something else going on there as a cause, it seems to me.

Hello again partial.

Capisum, you mentioned it varied but I wasn't clear if that meant any of those DV perpetrators were more generally violent?

But responsibility can only be accepted if a person knows how to respond correctly. Some people genuinely don't. Or their sense of reality is so screwed their (wrong) response seems correct.

Um... what level of anger and frustration? Is no one ever to be allowed to express their feelings, do we all have to give each other sweet sugary false smiles all the time? I might be going to the other extreme?

It is men who overwhelmingly express anger and frustration as violence.

But what about those people who do not expess their anger and frustration as violence?

Are they not abusers as well?

Add message | Report | Message poster YonicScrewdriver Wed 02-Sep-15 18:35:26
Capsicum, you obviously know some troubled individuals. Were they generally violent towards friends, male relatives, colleagues etc as well?

It varied. One was in a profession with a significant amount of responsibility, still is as far as I know. He was supported through work I think eventually. One was just a student, sensitive and intelligent. I have known very troubled women too. I know several professionals who work directly managing the mental illness of people with who have committed serious crimes.

"This has lead to 'blaming' and in effect punishing people for their illness, a serious human rights abuse in itself..."

There's a difference between responsibility and blame... I agree blame and punishment models are unhelpful, but accepting responsibilty is an essential first step for accepting help. As someone already said upthread I think.

Excellent Capsium, you've decided that everyone with serious MH problems is absolved of all blame for their choice to be violent.

I'll pass that one on to everyone I worked with. If nothing else, it'll make them chuckle...

"Play that comment was said in response to what Lightening said, below, not in an attempt to derail,

"Yet women do not choose to extend their 'mental illness' as violence. Men do choose to do that. The difference is that men feel entitled to take out their woes on others"

I think this is widely, dangerously and quite obviously inaccurate."

Ok it was a generalisation, but a reasonable one. Are you now disputing the op (true) statement that violence is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men?

BigChoc I concur with all you have written.

However I have a small issue that maybe easily cleared up.

In your op you quoted from the other site "women perpetrate physical and emotional abuse at comparable rates to men"

But then it seems that nearly all subsequent discussion focussed upon physical abuse and violence.

Are there any statistics on emotional abuse? I would have thought these were much more difficult to record. Emotional abuse does not need to involve violence, just abuse.

Suggesting that people who suffer from MH problems in some way lack the ability to choose is really offensive by the way. That belief has lead to some really serious human rights abuses against people with serious MH problems.

I think not recognising that people suffering from delusions and halluncinations can have their choices impaired, since their perception of reality is altered, the basis from which decisions are made, is offensive. This has lead to 'blaming' and in effect punishing people for their illness, a serious human rights abuse in itself...

I don't. And the evidence would bear me out.

What I do think is dangerous is trying to find reasons to exhonerate men from their violence. Which is what you have done since your first post.

So far, so status quo.

Play that comment was said in response to what Lightening said, below, not in an attempt to derail,

"Yet women do not choose to extend their 'mental illness' as violence. Men do choose to do that. The difference is that men feel entitled to take out their woes on others"

I think this is widely, dangerously and quite obviously inaccurate.

I never said mentally ill people can never help themselves. For some it is extremely difficult, though, there are some terrifying and debilitating conditions. If people are to get over any illness they have to really help themselves eventually. Some just don't know how or where to start.

Oh god....and now it's women do it toooooooooo

Derailing for dummies, the best selling book.

And again... and again... and again...

2 examples out of how many? And, let me just take up your point that a person who suffers with delusions had their choices impaired... are you suggesting that people who suffer with delusions and aren't violent are in some way super human, or do you think that they make the choice not to be violent? Do you think that the many, many people who misuse substances and aren't violent are super human, or do you think they make the choice not to be violent?

Suggesting that people who suffer from MH problems in some way lack the ability to choose is really offensive by the way. That belief has lead to some really serious human rights abuses against people with serious MH problems.

Making excuses for men's violence is as old as time. It's time the record got changed now, for all our sakes.

Treading dangerously close to saying domestic abuse is a anger management problem there.

It's not, it's a power and control issue

Not excuses, reasons. The only violent crimes I have known of, concerning people I knew, occurred in situations where substance abuse and mental illness was apparent.

That is an extremely narrow experience from which to derive extremely broad views.

Capsicum, you obviously know some troubled individuals. Were they generally violent towards friends, male relatives, colleagues etc as well?

Some women do extend their mental illness as violence. Secure units are full of them.

However I think people's distorted perceptions can compromise the choices they make. Understanding how this can occur rather than simply pointing the wrongness of violent crime (do not most people know it is wrong?), I think should be prioritised

A huge problem is most people don't really care. There is always an excuse and rarely do people minimising and justifying abuse get challenged in the comunity.

Whilst most people do know it's wrong a lot of those same people collude with it, excuse it,justify it, minimise it and often go full on into making a point about how it does not make someone a bad person or a bad father or they victim blame.

People are violent because (with the exclusion of limited capacity medical conditions) they choose to be.

There is a fair bit of hope for lowering the risk of reoffending for perpetrators who see it for what it is,do not excuse it and who get challenged for it.

Capsium you really seem to believe that violent men cannot help themselves, poor dears, they're all mentally ill. Yes they are, by the current definition of that term (not sure I wouldn't prefer emotionally deranged myself, since that's what it is really all about). Thing is, a lot of women are mentally ill too. They become mentally ill, as have the men, after being put through abusive circumstances. You want to talk to those of us who've been brought up in dysfunctional families, we end up usually with a similar spectrum of woes. Yet women do not choose to extend their 'mental illness' as violence. Men do choose to do that. The difference is that men feel entitled to take out their woes on others. I can remember feeling as if I was about to lose control and do the same, I viewed it as a problem. Men, for some reason, don't see themselves as the problem in the same way.

Much mental illness, perhaps all - I'm not a specialist - is not an absolute, it is caused by something and it can be undone and untangled.

I'm not saying this very well, sorry.