Women do it too.

My husband is a career man . There are photos of birthday parties which he is not in ( because he is taking the photos ). We have many photos of me and my children .

I don't think any of these facts prove that he is an unfit father .

Anecdata.

I know two women killed by their partners and zero men. I also know two men who deserved full custody of their children, and both won full custody.

The same husband who you posted about having physically assaulted his son, so much so that he left a red hand mark on him and got into trouble with the law?

Your brother's story is sad. It's also not indicative of the family court's bias to mothers, if the family courts were biased in this way, they would surely also force 'deadbeat' fathers to see their children as the vast majority of mothers want, no? The fathers who can't be arsed to drive to see their children, but who sit on the internet bleating about not being allowed to?

My husband raised his daughter from a young age while his wife worked. He has photo albums literally plastered with pictures of him and her. His wife was a career woman, there are photos of birthday parties where she was not present.
In the end, after she had an affair with a work colleague and told my husband that he was not any kind of man staying at home raising a child, he divorced her.
She alleged all kinds of nasty stuff and won full custody.
I could tell similar stories about my brother, who regularly drives from Portsmouth to Birmingham to see his daughter, only to be told when he gets there that he can't. He's been through the courts and has a court order in his favour which she ignores without consequence.
The allegation that the earlier poster made that men that take issue with the family courts have been denied access with good reason is distasteful and untrue.

Sonny, I'm not surprised you don't understand my post. Perhaps you could ask someone to explain it to you, that might help. They might also explain Speverend's post to you as well, given that it has things called facts in it and you're not good with those.

I had a quick look at the ONS crime stats initially referenced by sonnyson12. The 2011 report is a PDF available here, with the appendix tables as an Excel file here. The TL;DR for this post is that the infographic is correct, but irrelevant and possibly misleading in the context sonny presented it in here.

The 4:3 female:male figure appears to be people who have experienced "partner abuse (non sexual)" in the last year. For "any partner abuse", it's about 4.4:3. There's a figure for sexual assault (by anybody, not just family) in the same table. In that case, the ratio is 25:3.

Of course, this is irrelevant. The sex of the victim doesn't tell you the sex of the perpetrator (and the raw numbers are low enough that the victims could be all homosexual, all heterosexual, or more probably a mix), It's the perpetrator's sex which is the interesting thing when talking about whether "women do it too", rather than whether "men have it done to them too". For that, you need to look elsewhere. Unfortunately there's no breakdown of domestic violence by sex of perpetrator. However, there are a couple of tables that do that breakdown for other crimes.

Table 4.10 (in the appendix tables) shows that 99% of sexual assaults on women were by men. You can't find out anything about the attacks on men because there were so few. Definitely an overwhelmingly male thing overall, though.

Table 2.12 (again in the appendix) shows that 204 men were indicted for homicide, of whom 83% were convicted. Meanwhile 25 women were indicted and 76% convicted. That's 8-9 men killing someone for every woman doing it.

So yes, women do it too. Just not in anywhere the numbers that men do. Why should that be any different for domestic violence?

Hamis,

Apologies, I'd hope that you can stop 'patting' yourself soon. Together we can beat it but I would concede that the patting is most definitely the 'patting' hand of the patriarchy.

I'll be back in a moment, I'm stressed, meetings with the patriarchy and all that... you crazy fool!

PlaysWell,

With respect, it is not a 'fevered imagination'.

I don't understand the rest of your post.

Your 'vast' experience?

Sonny, they might be rife in your fevered imagination, but most of the posters on this board live in the real world, where they aren't.

Although your statement here Thankfully the courts have assisted me in preventing in counteracting my daughter's mother's harmful and emotionally, psychologically and physically abusive behaviour. suggests to me that maybe the false accusations mad in the family court in your case weren't made against you.

Men who have been good fathers continue to be good fathers no matter what happens to their relationship with their children's mother. Men who bleat on about how mean the family courts are (and women for that matter) for not allowing unsupervised access tend to have been shitty parents all along. At least in my vast experience.

Ugh. You need some mayonnaise.

Manwidge

Bread
Man
Bread

The Edible Man cometh after all.

Women cook and eat them, Iamaboveandbeyond, using their inherent cooking skillz.

That data didn't say what your infographic said it said, Sonnyboy.

Without looking at all this inconvenient data. Sonny, your helpful if somewhat heteronormative infographic says 3/7 men : 4/7 women, and you claim 1 man and 1 woman a week are killed by their opposite sex partner cough, heteronormative, cough

Correct me if this sounds like a straw man, but that "data" (term used loosely) implies that a greater proportion of male DV victims are murdered by women (1/3) than female DV victims murdered by men (1/4). Really? Really?!

Where are all these dead men hiding?

Ah, thank you for clarifying your position so very clearly Sonny.

Shame you're completely wrong but never mind. .

Playswell,

Yes, I stand by my statement that false allegations are rife within the family court due to the reason that they are. Ask the question in legal.

Jeff,

You are wrong to assume, "probably hasn't got 'access'", as my daughter lives with me half the time, after several years of obtaining court orders in our favour.

I have never had anything to do with F4J nor am I a 'MRA'.

AskBasil, I am confident that my daughter is intelligent enough to reject your feigned sadness and I will never waiver from my responsibility to protect/educate her of the reality that men and women can be abusive and violent and that she does not have to tolerate that.

Thankfully the courts have assisted me in preventing in counteracting my daughter's mother's harmful and emotionally, psychologically and physically abusive behaviour.

BreakingDad, I respectfully reject your offer of a 'red pill', I wouldn't trust your supplier, whereas I do trust mine.

My assumption about Sonny's daughter (if he has one) is that he is here because he is an angry bitter man and -probably hasn't got access. It's why most of the f4j/mra types hassle MUMsnet.

"I don't get why people try to equalise gender violence when the scale and degree are so different."

Because they hate women and will use any tool in their tool kit against us, including denying that violence is gendered at all if the occasion calls for it, or alternatively, saying that women deserve it anyway and should just submit to male authority because it's natural.

I find it particularly sad for Sonny's daughter, that he has tried to prevent her seeing reality and therefore keeping herself safe. Let's hope her mother has counteracted his unhelpful influence.

sonnyson12 in my lifetime I have only seen one guy get attacked by a women with a shoe but she was helping her partner as part of a scrap, and once a woman threw a glass at a table, and once a girl pushed another over. But of the women I have known similar numbers have suffered sexual abuse, a couple of sexual assault and a couple domestic abuse by men.

I don't get why people try to equalise gender violence when the scale and degree are so different.

If I could send you a red pill electronically I would

I am a Father that has gone to great lengths to ensure that my daughter is well equipped to protect herself. I'm more concerned about female violence toward her.

You've had a wasted effort so. Woman to woman violence is vanishingly rare. It's a shame you couldn't get past your hatred of women and weird paranoia to prepare her for what will almost certainly actually happen.

sonnyson12 wrote - "The oft quoted 'two women are killed by men a week' is inaccurate, it is less. One man is killed per week by a woman."

You are wrong.

For example, 171 women were murdered in England and Wales in 2012/13.* 93% of these 171 women were murdered by men and 7% by women. This means that men murdered 159 women (which is more than 3 per week) in England and Wales during 2012/13. 53% of the 171 murdered women were murdered by their male partner or ex-partner - it's this figure, of 76 murdered women, that provides England and Wales' 2012/13 contribution to the UK statistic of "two women a week are killed by their partner or ex-partner". In 2012/13, 380 men were murdered in England and Wales (93.5% by men, 6.5% by women). This means that women murdered 25 men (which is fewer than 1 every two weeks).

(* 171 women murdered in a year is below the long-term average of about 200 women murdered per year, so the number of women murdered per week in 2012/13 is also lower than the long-term average, which is closer to 4 women murdered per week by men in England and Wales)

These statistics are taken directly, summarised or arithmetically calculated from data in Focus on Violent Crime and Sexual Offences (England and Wales) 2012-13 - Report by Office of National Statistics

Your link is still wrong. Luckily I found the doc you need. See my helpful link.

aaand....that takes us where sonny?

See normally I do like to engage with 'hard-to-reach' people - it's more of a challenge but your sort of denial has no justification nor basis, so that just means it takes much longer - in the sense I'd have to wait until you grow up a bit, as I'd said early up thread. It's almost child-like.

And ask any adult woman, false allegations are rife within the family court.

Utter, utter bollocks. That statement doesn't even warrant women's time or effort in replying.