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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rape and coercion

106 replies

VampyreQueen · 08/08/2015 21:41

I'm trying to think something through and I'd greatly appreciate some help!

My DP and I were discussing a well known game franchise that he plays. I haven't played it myself so only know the story second hand, if you see what I mean.

Essentially, Character A and Character B are kidnapped by the Bad Guys. The Bad Guy tells A that he has a choice; either A can rape B or he (Bad Guy) will. This is basically a means of torture, in that A must decide wether to take the 'kinder' option of doing it or allowing the Bad Guy to do it (probably with added violence)

To me, A is still a rapist and - though in a shit position - is still morally wrong (if you see what I mean)

DP disagrees. I would be interested in your thoughts, Should you care to share them Smile

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BertieBotts · 11/08/2015 14:29

I think men in general do view male rape as worse than female rape, yes.

Because most women are straight or bisexual and hence most women have enjoyed consensual sex with a man. And because sex is not painful or uncomfortable for men so how would they know that even consensual sex can be uncomfortable or painful or emotionally difficult sometimes? And how would they understand that consensual enthusiastic sex is usually well lubricated and the muscles are relaxed and open, whereas forced sex may not be and the muscles might close tightly which would make it in fact comparable with anal rape.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 11/08/2015 13:44

Rape of females is considered bad when the female is very young or very old. In those cases society views it as "bad" as male rape and men probably do too. Well, unless the victim is gay. Then I think the same attitude applies as for women and girls between puberty and menopause type ages.

This game is inviting male players to commit a guilt free rape. It assumes that rape by a stranger is worse than rape by someone you know, which is usually not true. It is saying the true violence is in any additional violence, therefore the friend "just" raping and not hitting is seen as not on the same scale of badness.

Whole thing appalling really.

JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:51

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JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:51

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JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:50

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MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 10:47

"Do they think a woman being raped by a man is less devastating?"

I think most people have problems empathising, so probably yes.

Men will joke about male rape - bend over and pick up the soap in the showers type comments probably more than they joke about female rape.
Yet they still would be horrified when considering themselves ebing raped.

JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:47

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 11/08/2015 10:42

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MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 10:40

Can't most men imagine being raped by another man?
Most men I have heard talking about this consider it just about the worst thing that can happen to them, although obviously it's pretty rare.

MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 10:38

"They are essentially the same in terms of harm, because the main aspect of harm from rape is psychological. In fact, the harm might be worse If her friend is the perpetrator, not better."

That's the dilemma the scriptwriter is posing though, so it's their mistake.
The bad guy is gloating that he will do it, probably with more pain and additional violence.
The gameplayer is required to consider whether it is better for B to be subjected to additional pain or violence as well as the psychological trauma.
But, the game creator probably didn't consider the psychological aspect to be honest.

JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:25

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 11/08/2015 10:21

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JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 10:16

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MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 09:42

"The perpetrator in the philosophy situation is a killer. The perpetrator in the game situation I is a rapist."

I agree. The moral dilemma posed is "which is least bad" in both cases.

YonicScrewdriver · 11/08/2015 09:37

Also I believe the philoosohy problem is usually at a distance ie flick a switch to choose who lives. Not strangling the victim personally, which is a closer equivalent.

YonicScrewdriver · 11/08/2015 09:36

The perpetrator in the philosophy situation is a killer. The perpetrator in the game situation I is a rapist.

Op's DP was arguing that he is not a rapist.

MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 09:32

And in the philosophy situation, the perpetrator is still a killer, the quandary is whether killing one is "better" than 100 being killed.
How can killing one person be good?
Hence the dilemma.

MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 09:31

It isn't exactly equivalent, but I think it's similar.
Victims still end up dead in the utilitarianism poser, it's just a question of how many.
I agree including this in a game is tasteless and horrible, but I guess the manufacturer's wanted to pose a moral dilemma for "A" the playable character.

JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 09:26

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JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 09:25

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JustTheRightBullets · 11/08/2015 09:24

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MrNoseybonk · 11/08/2015 08:56

Isn't this scenario similar to the old "would you kill one person to save the lives of 100 people" scenario that first year philosophy students have to consider?
In that situation it is seen as a moral dilemma for the perpetrator, the victim is not usually considered.

BertieBotts · 10/08/2015 08:35

Bathtime that picture isn't B, it's another character.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 08:11

If it was about exploring the moral dilemma, surely that could be done just as well with being asked to punch a friend to save him/her from a worse punch.

It might be possible to use media (book, film. Etc) to explore this issue properly - given the portrayal of the women in the game, however, that's not what is happening here and I think your DP is wrong to not consider that too.

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 10/08/2015 08:05

Like Lass, I really really hate the concept of rape as light entertainment. Angry I've come across the problem of sexism in games before: it's just getting more and more extreme isn't it as the manufactures need to find ever more extreme scenarios to put before a jaded public.

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