Feminist Pub XX - may the summer rains wash the patriarchy down the plughole

I can't take credit - I think it came from someone else in the pub ages back..

Chunky

I love that way of putting it! Especially the part about sales teams deciding no one wants green ipods because no one asked for them.

With of course the extra bit above, that if you don't know you can get a green ipod, then no-one asks for them, so your sales team might decide that's because no-one wants green ipods, when really, the conclusion should be that people didn't think they could get green ipods.

HoVis - when younger and more naive I didn't get it either (along with a lot of things that this board has opened my eyes and ears about), but what explained it to me is that you're not being representative of what's already there, you're wanting to showcase what's available.

If Apple made a rainbow of ipods, but the only ones they put out in the shop were the red ones because that's what most people had historically bought, how would you even know that it was possible to get a green one?

If girls never even hear of female composers, why would they even think about it being a possibility (with a few, very determined exceptions who've fought all the way to get there)

INicked

I haven't read it, but at 99p I'm quite tempted to buy it for some train reading on my tablet!

Online sexism really interests me. I've often wondered if the internet in fact makes the world seem/feel more misogynistic, as you often get the extreme views shouted the loudest, if that makes any sense? I've certainly felt as if attitudes relating to gender have gone downhill during my lifetime, but I can't decide if that is just a perception issue on my part...

I should have read your second post kickass, I've just sent you a long pm. Ignore it :)

Oooh, a new pub!

Just came across this: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/aug/18/female-composers-a-level-music-syllabus-petition

And am now trying, very, very gently, to suggest that a friend of a friend check his male privilege, as he's busy saying he never saw the need for people to have role models of the same gender. Might it be because he's never had the problem of only ever being presented role models of the opposite gender?!

And back to work...

Scrub that, just went on the thread about it. Now I need to change all my passwords, which is long overdue, but we're on vacation for another 10 days.

What happened to Justine? I haven't got regular internet atm and don't appear to have an email. Can someone fill me in? Please?

Lean In is quite readable, but it's written from a position of privilege, and I think assumes everyone is on a meteoric executive sort of career. Maybe I'm being unreasonable - it's been a while since I read it. Lean Out is more varied, as it's a collection of articles from different people, and one or two of them, I just don't like the style. But there's quite a bit of it which I am nodding my head at. It's also quite readable. I'd say they're both easier than Delusions of Gender, but not as good, and of course, they're covering a narrower area, working in corporates/IT. DoG is great, though, so it's worth sticking with
.

I've just read about the swat on Justine too, it sounds really scary. I've had to re-register (just like I did last time mn was hacked) because I use my "spam" email address to register for mn, and I don't check it so I have no idea what my password is for that email address, so I've set up yet another disposable email address to be able to come back to talk to you all.

We like the subtitles in our house too, the best we've found are the Peppa Pig episodes on YouTube, where the words written on the screen are only vaguely similar to what they are saying, and quite regularly there's a swear word on the subtitles that I'm quite sure Daddy Pig didn't say.

Dd turns in the subtitles whenever she can, she likes to look for mistakes.

I've just read about the Swat on Justine and another MNer, that must have been frightening.

I have Lean In ebear but haven't read it yet. Is it heavy going? I've been picking up lots feminist books but I'm not very good at actually reading them. I've been reading Delusions Of Gender, but it's taking me a while, because I struggle with some of the language, so keep re reading sections. It's fascinating to me though.

My favourite ever subtitles were on Timmy Time (CBeebies show about farmyard animal children at the farmyard school) - for which the subtitles go something like:

Timmy: Baaa, baaabaaa Teacher:Hoot, hoot Duck:Quack

There are no words, just animal noises, which are carefully transcribed. It's Awesome (also, fun-fact, the Ubiquitous Justin provides voices for it)

It was mid-conversation, so it would be hard to pick out the name if you weren't listening as well as reading.

I've read Cybersexism. I mostly read it during lunchtime at work. I am not sure I should read things like this at work, as it increases my anger levels and reduces my tolerance for men I work with. I'm currently reading Lean Out, which is a series of articles written in response to Lean In. Most of my current stack of to-be-read books are feminist, but I think I might have to intersperse them with some trashy fiction or something which won't be so bad for my blood pressure.

I quite like reading subtitles (as I was yesterday, as my ears were playing up after swimming) - live ones tend to be funniest. That's hard-of-hearing subtitles rather than translation ones, mind you. I don't see why in the case of French, you even need to translate the title - most people would know who Mme Legrun is Ms/Mrs Legrun, wouldn't they?

Jeanne - oh god. I read the titles of the Man With A Pram, that's annoying enough. No, it's not just not being a parent, it's just not very interesting.

Thanks to whoever mentioned twitter.com/manwhohasitall earlier in the thread btw!

Chunky I try not to read too much into subtitles. I have seen LOTS of them. Just now, in fact, I saw 'Thursday' translated with the Greek word for 'Tuesday'.

And on another occasion, a diplomatic incident nearly ensued when a translator mistakenly used the Greek word for the mental illness when translating "economic depression".

LauraMipsum Its a funny thing isn't it? I mean, its what men are supposed to do too. Look after their children just as their wives/girlfriends/exes have done.

If I behaved like a man in the stereotypical sense. Leaving the OH to hold the baby. Swanning off to work things. Not bothering with uniforms, school plays etc etc I'd be called amongst other things a bitch and many would wonder why I had children! I do wonder why men decide starting a family is great If they're not going to be so hands on :/

Has anyone read Cybersexism by Laurie Pennie? I've just finished it (it's only 42 pages) and found it interesting. I wondered if a general thread about sexism women face online is something worth starting if it hasn't been done already? (I've not looked through archives yet.)

Weird little thing I noticed just now - I was watching a film, and some bits were in French. One character called another Madame Whatever, but the subtitles translated it as Miss Whatever - she was a grown, professional woman, character looked late 30s, unmarried, for which there is a perfectly good word, but it was still translated in a traditional manner.

Following the monster recent thread, it was very noticeable and jarring.

I know a single dad who was considered a hero for "managing" when his wife left, although he was a very capable individual. The weird thing was that a lot of the women heaping extreme praise on him for coping were single mums themselves who didn't see what they were doing as anything out of the ordinary.

I've been blamed too MsDragons for my DSs challenging behaviour because he doesn't have his bio father involved. OH took him out a similar tantrum/meltdown occurred 'oh he doesn't like shopping then' and I usually get glares and tuts!

There are complete double standards and few people really get to see it because It is so ingrained. People accept their 'roles' without question.

That's true Betty. I only know one single dad, but he has 2 teenagers, who are going through very rebellious stages. Everyone seems to think he's an angel for dealing with them, and the scorn heaped on his ex for "abandoning" them is incredible. Yet the same rebellion in teenagers from a home with a single mum is seen as being her fault, because they don't have a father figure in their lives, she's too soft, etc. It's complete double standards, especially as the absent father doesn't come on for anywhere near the same level of criticism as the nrp mother.

Thanks yonic.

Is that column in the Guardian annoying anyone else? Man with a Pram? I don't have children so fully willing to be told I am out of line, but ... www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/man-with-a-pram

MsDragons it happens to single parents too. At a single Parent group its just expected that women can be single parents but the sympathy poured onto single dads is incredible. Its hard for anyone but for a man its always seen as something... heroic?