Ms, Mrs,Miss

Yes even more reason to help them get their heads round the idea when they're 6. After all what do 6yos spend all day doing at school, if not learning new words and concepts? And this one is pretty easy.

Mmm, but that's a circular argument.

It never gets used by teachers
Kids find it hard to say because they aren't used to it
Ergo a teacher who does use it is, in your eyes, "insisting on Ms about which the kids don't have the slightest clue"

I'm well aware that all teachers do use Miss or Mrs at my children's schools - I'd be interested to know if they use Ms at their banks or whatever but pick Miss/Mrs at school because that's the "done" thing

I think he would settle for Mr A - that is generally what they do.

I'm a married woman and I use miss and ms interchangeagably. With my own surname.

It is generally because all female staff in schools are Mrs or Miss. People keep on making out I am an oddity and yet in 40 yrs of teaching, in many schools, in different LEAs, with 3 children through school I have come across about 4 with the title Ms. And that goes for today when still working with schools. These are all intelligent women who understand they have the choice- and they use it!

Mehit, what's wrong with six year olds learning that there are three titles and learning how to say them. It obviously didn't bother the Ms in question or she would have chosen to use another title.

Let's say there's a Mr Andriopolis who teaches infants. Chances are it'll take them a while to get his name right and some will be saying "Mr Andrewpolice" all year. That doesn't mean he shouldn't try and teach them his name.

I can see perhaps these children being confused at first. But in my experience, children pick up things pretty quickly, especially if they see it as a novelty. The pronunciation thing is a complete non-issue, usually drummed up by people who have other objections to women using the title.

I am an independent single woman, very proud and happy to be so, and never ever want to be mistaken for anything else, certainly not as a wife.

So why not use Ms?

It was the ones who had been 'educated' who made such a mess if it. All teachers, in my experience (part of the world ) are Mrs or Miss. This was one school where one was Ms and obviously made a huge thing of it with the children because they passed it on to me as a supply teacher that she had to be called Ms ( said with great emphasis !)
They were only 6 years old and haven't a clue about your marital status- not working out the difference between Mrs and Miss ( or having the slightest clue why someone was insisting on Ms) .

If children can't pronounce it, they need educating (and also if it was me I would be educating them as to exactly why I require them to call me it and asking them to discuss the whole issue and have a think about it. And helping them practice).

Of course any child who can speak normally can say "Miz", there is nothing to mangle. If they can say "is" and "mister", they can say "Miz". If they are making a massive deal out of it, that is as a way of singling someone out for making a stand and stepping outside the norm. It's a very common method of slapping people down (especially women) and I don't think anyone should stand for that.

I absolutely hate being called anything other than Miss.

I have withdrawn my application to store cards that do not give me the option of being "Miss"

I have refused to fill out forms without this option.

I am an independent single woman, very proud and happy to be so, and never ever want to be mistaken for anything else, certainly not as a wife.

And as a teacher I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it daily.
Most are likely to stick with Miss anyway.

They mangle it it in my part of the UK.

I have heard many children pronounce it. I am in the US South where many people pronounce Mrs and Ms the same way: Miz. And where Ms is very commonplace for adult women. Children seem to have no particular problem with it.

I deedpolled to Mrs because I was fed up of the looks/whispers at dentist, doctors & schools when they saw I had a child and was miss.

You obviously haven't heard what children do with the pronunciation- that is what has put me off completely!

Ms is an abbreviation for mistress and parallels the abbreviation for Mr in that the first and last letters are used. The difference is that we don't pronounce the full word as mistress, so it's miz as Sylvanian says. It's pretty simple really and anyone who doesn't like the sound needs to explain how they feel about all the other "z" sounds in English.

Re pronunciation, i think there is a belief among some people that "Ms" has to be pronounced "MZZZZZ" with no vowel in it. It comes across as quite hard to say because of this exaggerated no vowel thing. But in fact if you just relax and say "Miz" (like Miss but with a z) it's no problem at all.

I didn't say everyone was the same Lass. I wouldn't do it and know mainly people who wouldn't. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
There are always exceptions. You can never make blanket statements.
That wasn't a blanket statement. I merely said that I thought inequality of using titles was worse than your choice of title. I specifically said that it was changing - even in the most conservative of places - Ambridge in the Archers! However it still happens and is wrong IMO.

Some solicitors call their cleaner by their first name and expect a title and surname back. Some solicitors have moved with the times and have an equal use of first names.

The solicitor calls her cleaner Mary, but Mary has to use Ms Smith

Oh come off it. I am a solicitor. I have employed nannies,cleaners and gardeners over the years. I still have a cleaner and a gardener. Not one of them has ever called me anything other than my first name.

I mentioned hairdressers. The juniors call me (wrongly but politely) "Mrs" because they don't know my name and they are so much younger than me. If we were in France they would call me "Madame". My actual hairdresser calls me by first name and always has done.

Whereas I couldn't care less who knows my marital status I would be livid in Skiptons case. It is like me mentioning a poster called Captain and assumptions that all captains are male!

BertrandRussel Yes, Kyrie/ Kyria is used for all social classes these days. All adult women are Kyria.

And women keep their own surnames on marriage, as I said previously. The couple sign an agreement prior to getting married, designating which surname any children of the marriage will have. I was required to sign such an agreement.

Nooka, automatic wasn't quite the right word (by me). I meant that it was something like as "expected" as saying please and thank you. Over the recent past it's becoming less expected.

My uncle didn't believe my friend when she told him at my wedding I was keeping my own name. For him, it was so expected (that's not quite a perfect word either) that he thought she was joking.

Mehitabel, I think a couple of posters have said titles are necessary for them in formal situations; most are probably in agreement with you that perhaps titles could be shed altogether. Certainly my hairdresser and I use each other's first names!

Anyone for Comrade?

I would be livid as well, Skipton, that is beyond infuriating. They must have come across it a million times as well...?

I use Dr.

If I wasn't Dr. I'd use Ms. I don't see why my marital status is anyone's business.

A surprising number of computer systems fill this in as default male though. I was once almost refused entry to a flight because 'I'd put I was the wrong gender' on the booking. I hadn't, their system filled all Dr./prof etc out as male. Can't remember which holiday company it was, but sexist bastards! I was absolutely fucking livid.