Ms, Mrs,Miss

beau, I used to feel proud I'd managed a successful union. It was a lot of work, hard work.

Then I got divorced, because I realised you probably shouldn't have to feel a healthy relationship is that much hard work.

"Preferences are easily respected but they are vague and they hide reality. "

Assuming your husband is Mr, is he hiding reality?

Beaufort, do you think I am minimising my marriage by calling myself Ms?

It isn't an issue to be single; why hide it if it isn't a matter of concern? Serious question.

To be single or married or divorced or widowed is not a matter of concern, it is nobodys business. There should be no need to hide it nor highlight it either. Thats why i think that a neutral female title such as ms is ideal. I just dont feel the need to advertise my marital status.

Do you know grimbletart, I'm proud of being Mrs. I'm proud that I'm my DH's wife. I love being a married woman 25 years on still. I am still in awe that my DH married me and that we love each other more as each day passes. I still feel amazing when I'm out with him and people appreciate I'm his wife.

I'm also his equal; he feels the same about me. I have my own life, friends, money and a career. We share our home(s), our children and our love.

Really sorry but I think a successful union shouldn't be minimalized. Also I'm not a Ms. I didn't need to be Ms when I was single until I was 32. I was a Miss, because I wasn't married. When I married I became a Mrs because I was married. Two statements of fact. Ms is a preference. Preferences are easily respected but they are vague and they hide reality.

Why are women afraid of realities. That's what I think it boils down to. It isn't an issue to be single; why hide it if it isn't a matter of concern? Serious question.

Anotherspace: may I ask why you are proud of being Mrs? I have been Mrs too (for 49 years now) but I have never been proud of it, any more than I would be proud of being Ms or Miss? Can't see what there is to be proud of in any of them. They are only letters strung together after all.

I think they are equivalent in a school because the pupils have been taught them as such (unless the school uses Mr Jones etc instead)
I don't think pupils should use teacher's first names, personally.

When I started teaching in 1970s primary school we were all called 'ma'am' in my first job. That seemed really weird as a 21yr old.

I'm a teacher and I find that the kids (teenagers actually) seem to consider 'miss' and 'sir' to be equivalent. I'd far rather they were able to call me by my first name tho - using titles and surnames may seem more 'respectful', but it's very superficial.

Out of interest, if you need to catch a woman's attention on the street (she's dropped her purse or something) - what do you use?

I say "ma'am," but I am American and in the South.

"Because in years gone buy you had to leave teaching when you married....."

That makes sense.

I would call a woman "Madam" to attract attention

I have been Mrs for 28 years and proud of it. Not changing now.

Because in years gone buy you had to leave teaching when you married.....

"I also don't understand how the British convention of addressing male teachers as "Sir," but female teachers as "Miss" came about. Surely that is gender discrimination at its finest: the men get an honorific that denotes respect, but the women don't."

I think Miss as used in school does denote respect.

Out of interest, if you need to catch a woman's attention on the street (she's dropped her purse or something) - what do you use?

"My point was that I hated the pronunciation of Ms- and that was from the ones who had been told how to say it."

I do, I have to say, find it baffling that someone can feel so strongly as to use the word "hate" about the sound of "Ms" but be perfectly fine about the sound of "Mrs"...............

I will be getting married in two years time. I will be taking Dps name - mainly because I strongly dislike the link between my own surname and my biological father. I will be sticking with Ms as a title because it's no one else's business if I am married or not.

Why can't all grown up women just be Mrs? Like all grown up men are Mr…. Wouldn't it make life easier??????

Uh, oh. I just googled Juliet Bravo. I love police procedurals, especially British police procedurals featuring women. And they are all on Youtube.

And Juliet Bravo (but that shows my age)

I think "Ma'am" is much more common in the US.

Yes, surely if male teachers are 'Sir' then females should be 'Maam' - I suspect it's because if you were a teacher, you were unmarried - since if you got married you'd have been expected to give up your job.

I also don't understand how the British convention of addressing male teachers as "Sir," but female teachers as "Miss" came about. Surely that is gender discrimination at its finest: the men get an honorific that denotes respect, but the women don't.

At my all girls school children we were not allowed to call teachers 'Miss' (as in generic MIIIIIISSSS) - we were to use their name - Miss Brown, or Mrs Granville or whatever. There's nothing innate in children that means that have to call female teachers 'Miss'. The rule was the same at my country primary. The only place I saw kids yelling Miss was on Grange Hill!

Out of interest I looked at the school we're thinking of sending DS1 to next year, and every single woman was listed as Ms, and every man as Mr. It gave me a warm feeling actually - like it had been thought about and a policy set.

Oh, and to answer the question, I am divorced but was Ms throughout. I formally graduated from my PhD roughly when my marriage ended, so I went from Ms to Dr, but I use Ms most of the time, or no title at all.

There does seem to be a prevailing attitude (denied) that Miss for an adult is somehow inferior.

Oh, but it is inferior, surely?

'Miss' is equivalent to 'Master', and those are titles for children. I don't think of children as being the same as full adults.