Ms, Mrs,Miss

Not really Nolim - not enough to make it an issue. I wouldn't have them as a friend if they were rude enough to think they know better- but if it is important to them they can get on with it. I would just have a quiet word with others and say 'she has a bee in her bonnet about Ms- just ignore'.

I'eve also known since childhood that I didn't want to be Miss or Mrs or ever change my surname. I think though I've had more practice at defending it because I've had far more people around me who just didn't get it! (and still don't)

Funnily enough my first introduction to feminism as a teenager was from a friend's mum who subscribed to Spare Rib and I used to look at the copies that were lying around. I decided right then and there to be Ms. But friend's mum was a Mrs Husbandsname. I just couldn't work out why, when her Spare Ribs had shown me the way! :o (I was maybe somewhat naive)

Sylvanian, I might be really foolish here but what you've explained so eloquently is something I knew when I was a child. hence it comes as a real surprise to me that anyone needs it explaining to them - though if I meet anyone who does, I'm sending them to you as you do it so well.

Maybe Lass and I really are living in a protected bubble. In which case, hey, our bubble is nice!!!

I don't think it's about being desperate to keep your marital status a secret. I'm not married and I don't give a toss who knows it. The point is that I'd like to move on from a system where my title as a woman is either/or, married to a man or not married to a man, and that's what matters about me. Because a) it's not and b) it's and sexist, because the same doesn't apply to men and c) it's sexist, because it makes marrying a man (or not) the main thing about me.

It's one of those things that no, it doesn't make a big practical difference. But it makes a big symbolic difference and sends an important message - that I have as much right as a man does for my marital status to be my business, and not to be the main thing about me.

SenecaFalls - exactly! where's the "like" button?

Mehitabel would you be ok if someone addresses you as ms? Maybe someone who doesnt know/remember that you prefer to be adressed as mrs and has to make a guess on the spot? If so why is that?

It genuinely doesn't bother me. I just pick the one I feel like picking that day - and that's the great thing about having choice. I veer from Rev, to Lady, to Admiral of the Fleet (a personal favourite), to Sir, and so on, depending on my mood. Miss if I'm not speaking to DH.

I received a letter the other day addressed to Master instead of Mister. It raised a smile for me until I opened it and saw it was my gas bill!

I couldn't care less who knows my marital status. They don't anyway. I was still Mrs when not married.

But only women have a choice that involves disclosing whether they are married or not. Why is this? Because society still likes to identify women in terms of their relationships with men. And that wrong. It's not always a good thing to have a "choice."

It all goes to prove that we are all different and should be free to choose for ourselves without needing to justify. We should also call others by their choice.
I can't see why you need a title most of the time- certainly not on a wedding seating plan.

My mum changed her name by deed poll when I was born as she wasn't married to my dad at the time (shock horror in the early 70s) but they got married 18 months later.

But when they divorced 25 years later, because she'd changed her surname to my dad's before the marriage, she had to change back to her maiden name via deed poll again.

When I got married I had a minor disagreement over the table plan with DH because I'd referred to all the men as Mr and the women as Ms. DH said that his mum would be offended to be referred to as Ms when she was a happily married Mrs and I had to go back through and change everyone to Miss and Mrs!

Marital status should be irrelevant. It's a good reason to get yourself a PhD I guess as you become a Dr, though not great if you're a Dr of history and people expect you to know about medicine...

Also can anyone clear up when a Master becomes a Mister? I'm sure I read that a boy becomes a Mr at 7, but a recent BA boarding pass said Master for my 12 year old.

Bet that felt good, LookAtMeGo!

Like many others on here, I just can't get my head round why women would want to show their marital status in their title, especially as men don't.

I have been Ms ever since I can remember, whether single, cohabiting or married.

I didn't change my name when I married (didn't occur to either of us that I would) and our children have my surname, mainly because it irked us both that people assumed they would have their father's name. They have his name as a middle name.

I've never come across the 'Ms is for divorced women' thing except on here but I'll take everyone's word for it that it's a widespread misconception...

I have speculated before that titles seem much more important in the UK than in the US, perhaps because y'all have so many more to choose from: lord, lady, sir, dame, etc.

I tend to agree. In the us i was ms for social things and dr for professional ones since i think it is a bit smug and unnecessary to use a professional tittle in social situations. But in the uk tittles seem to be very important and i get better results (customer service and such) using my professional tittle. Weird.

Titles are seldom asked for on forms the US. I have to have a background check for work and the form asks for my sex (well, it says "gender") and all names that I have been know by.

In the US, as has been pointed out, the default is Ms, especially in professional settings. I don't know any married women who use Mrs. And I have noticed that more and more letters are addressed with no title and the salutation is "Dear Jane Smith." This is the Quaker form of address, though I am sure that is not the reason for its use, except maybe in parts of Pennsylvania.

I have speculated before that titles seem much more important in the UK than in the US, perhaps because y'all have so many more to choose from: lord, lady, sir, dame, etc.

I've only encountered one - seriously - online form that didn't have Ms. I tweeted at them and they said - very apologetically - that the form had been changed and some bits had just fallen off - including Dr, Prof etc - which I could see in fairness. They had it changed within hours.

in fairness to the organisations, I don't think they are trying to define anyone by marital status. I think that's what they think their female customers want. If we don't shout about just getting the one title, it won't change.

Re Mr, if I'm filling in an online form and the options are Miss or Mrs and no Ms, and it won't let me just not pick one, I choose Mr. (Unless gender is relevant which it usually isn't).

So when online shopping I do end up with parcels for Mr Myname. I quite like that. I think heh heh, see you can't actually define me by my marital status, so there.

One of the advantages of living in the American South is that for many years, Mrs has been pronounced Miz by most people. It made it easier to get people used to Ms. And of course no one complains that it is an ugly sound.

Sylvanian "it's more a kind of raised eyebrow reaction"

same difference, that's what I mean. Why would anyone raise an eyebrow at this? Shocked at how the headteacher is treating you, what an awful example to set!

years ago, when I was maybe 20, I worked with a lady who was about 40 and changed from Miss Name to Ms Name after marriage. I asked why she hadn't been Ms all along and she said "I'm sorry to say I didn't realise how annoying the marital status thing was until I got married and received a flood of cards addressed to Mrs Husband's Name. I knew I was keeping my surname but that also made me realise the importance of Ms".

Yes, I've convinced myself - we should teach this in schools. though really I'd like to just end Miss & Mrs.

In my day to day life most people assume I'm Mrs - car dealers, people quoting me for work on the house, insurance.

In business, I'm generally just known by name, when a title is included it's generally an even split between Ms and Miss, (although, some native speakers from some countries default to Mr). Unless they discover I have kids when it suddenly becomes Mrs again.

I would always use Ms if I don't know myself, but it's really not that common I get it back.

I think if you work in a big organisation, or in London, it probably is very normal. I'm freelance and home-based. In work emails it's definitely the norm for clients contacting me from their offices to call me Ms as a matter of course. But I also move in SAHM/school playground/local area circles (not in London) and that's where I encounter much more of the puzzlement.

I don't think people openly say it's controversial, it's more a kind of raised eyebrow reaction or that faux - ooh-I-can't-get-my-head-round-such-modern-matters reaction. So someone on the phone etc will say is it Mrs or Miss, I say it's Ms - and sometimes they don't bat an eyelid, but other times there's a kind of "oh, I see" - i.e. you're one of those feminists.

Well yes I am but I do think that "othering" and eyebrow-raising is one of the things that makes some women not want to go there, though it's subtle.

The worst confusion arises at DS's primary school. I've told them, very nicely, that I am Ms Myname, but they (especially the HT) just look at me like I could knock them down with a feather - then keep using Mrs DS's name.

(The DC do have DP's name, which I kind of regret but I had my reasons at the time)

Saddest of all was when I went to help in class, kids were 8-ish. They all had to say "Gooooood Moooooooorning Mrs Teachersname." Then they turned to me and (obviously pre-coached) said "Gooooood Moooooooorning Mrs DS'sName."

Now you might think I could have just let it pass but I couldn't so quite brightly and cheerily I said "Actually my name is Ms Myname!"

They all immediately went: "Gooooood Moooooooorning Mrs Myname."
(Apart from DS I'd hope!)

So I did let that pass or we'd have been there all day.