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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is feminism a left-wing thing?

133 replies

HirplesWithHaggis · 04/08/2015 03:07

Inspired by a comment (is it the done thing to name the poster? I assume not, but it would be giving credit for inspiration/thought-inducing rather than slagging her) on the AI thread, that she is not a left-wing feminist; fair enough, we all self-define.

But I had kind of always rather assumed it was/is, perhaps because I've been vaguely lefty and always feminist (apart from moments here when I've been told that I'm not a feminist because I'm not radfem) for about 40 years now. Am I totally out of date?

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 04/08/2015 08:27

Yes, I think it's possible to be left wing, right wing or centrist and be a feminist.

Surely many people are a mixture of views anyway? And vote for whichever party matches more of their views overall?

As I understand it, the Democratic Party in the US is the "left wing" party but would be considered to be more closely equivalent to the Tory than the Labour Party here. So I'm not sure the concept of left wing and right wing is universal.

On all the "basic" definitions of feminism (gotta vagina? Wanna be in charge of it?... Do you think men and women should be equally fairly treated and do you think they are currently?... People call me a feminist when I have opinions that differentiate me from a doorpost ... Feminism - the notion that women are people etc) - there's no right or left wingery required.

AskBasil · 04/08/2015 07:18

I think radical feminism can't be right wing really, because right wing implies to me individualist, rather than collective solutions to structural problems and any radical movement seeks to eliminate the structural problems altogether, rather than just ameliorating them for a few, or enabling a few lucky individuals within the structure, to have opportunities to achieve things not usually possible in spite of the structure.

But liberal feminism can easily be right wing, it's easy to apply liberal (and libertarian) arguments to a version of feminism which doesn't actually challenge basic structures of inequality. That's why it's possible for tories like Louise Mensch and Theresa May to be feminist and that's why a right wing version of it, which doesn't actually challenge patriarchal structures, has been accepted by the media and our culture. It's possible for men who really hate women to think they're feminists, because they're in favour of women being able to compete with them on the uneven playing field they've constructed, which gives them an unfair advantage. Liberal feminism accepts the uneven playing field and tries to make it fairer - bring more of the grass over here, make the goal the same size as the one up that end, mark the pitch evenly on both sides, which leads to howls of protest from the men who perceive their loss of privilege as an attack upon their rights. Radical feminism just wants to the dig up the whole playing field and start a new game, one where men don't have an in-built unfair advantage.

That doesn't mean liberal feminism is always right wing - quite often it's quite lefty - but it has the usual weakness any liberal movement has: the potential to be hijacked by people who are fundamentally opposed to changing the basic conditions which led to the movement in the first place.

eurochick · 04/08/2015 06:32

I definitely don't identify as left wing. I'm definitely a feminist.

SweetAndFullOfGrace · 04/08/2015 06:25

I wouldn't identify as left wing (although nor would I as right wing, I mostly want to be left alone by other people's politics). And I think I'm a feminist.

I think it's massively unfair on an interpersonal basis that anyone would think they were superior due to an accident of birth. I can see how that adds up to class-based discrimination but I think the problem starts at the individual level. So I guess a traditionally left wing view of class based social re-engineering seems impractical to me.

JustTheRightBullets · 04/08/2015 06:15

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JustTheRightBullets · 04/08/2015 06:14

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Hazchem · 04/08/2015 04:13

I'd say some branches of feminism are closet to right wing than left wing. I personally think choice feminism can be away of dressing up neo liberal ideology and liberal feminism always seams fairly right.

But I'm off the scale lefty so almost everything is right wing to me Wink

BitOfFun · 04/08/2015 03:40

It is in my world, because it's about fairness and respecting people's basic humanity, and understanding how the structures of society oppress women in general, and vast swathes of other groups by extension of this analysis. But there are right-wing feminists, who subscribe to the idea of individualistic capitalist advancement, but just want women to have as good a shot at that as men.

Obviously, I believe that means their comprehension of structural oppression is essentially flawed, but I don't think they are especially worried about that, because it doesn't fit their world-view. For example, the poster Xenia (also known here under other usernames more recently) advocates the advancement of women, but her view is that the route to equality lies in making career choices that lead to earning big salaries, not taking much maternity leave, and promoting private education for girls.

It essentially pivots around whether you are interested in liberating all women as a class, or focussing on levelling the playing field between men and women to enable women to compete as individuals.