Demanding job

The minuteanytask is done (and there are a lot of them), it's virtually time to start doing that exact task all over again

Assuming you manage to actually finish anything. I'm on maternity leave and the little angel prefers I complete no task, let alone to any standard of domestic excellence. She likes eating and company and doesn't care what the boss thinks.

Unless there are any men here who have actually been at the coal face, at home with young children and a house to maintain, their opinion is fairly irrelevant.

I had a relatively short stint as a SAHM, and it was, to put it succinctly, an unhappy time for me.

As the saying goes, 'a woman's work is never done'.

The minute any task is done (and there are a lot of them), it's virtually time to start doing that exact task all over again.

Throw in children and husbands who expect the SAHP to relentless do these deeply unfulfilling tasks (wiping down benches, loading dishwashers, pegging out laundry, bring it in, folding it up, dusting, hoovering, washing, cleaning, maintaining, picking up after people, keeping on top of paperwork, etc, etc, ad nauseum...), and while it might be a short-term recipe for a clean house, it's not a recipe for a long-term happy marriage.

Most SAHP are doing their best to keep on top of things. They won't always be able to, and they most likely will log equal, if not more hours doing far less fulfilling and remotely enjoyable tasks day in, day out.

A little bit of shared responsibility for the joint living space, and a little kindness (and less 'exacting standards') goes a long way.

And good points about why do WOHP get to call the shots

Aren't they the ones paying, making them the employer?

Disposable clothes....

Environmentally friendly, compostible clothes...

Surely there's a SAHM out there with too much time on her hands who could engineer a product to fill that gap in the market before the school run?

Well exactly Scallops (it's putting away the washing that has always got me down... somehow I can cope with weeds re-growing, but the endless cycle of washing is just awful. Roll on clothes replicators)

But SAHP don't sit around drinking coffee between 9:00 and 15:00 when kids are at do they? What about shopping, clearing away the breakfast stuff, more fucking washing/washing up/putting away clothes. And that's before we get on to the jobs like hovering, cleaning the bathroom/kitchen/bedrooms, changing the bedding, organising bills/paperwork/dentists/party presents/after school activities, DIY, gardening, car-related stuff, bins, relative/friends related stuff etc. I know I could easily fill those six hours during the day with only part of that.

I am now depressed. It is a never ending cycle of jobs that never really get finished. And when they do they just start up again. I am grateful for my partner doing a lot of this while I am out of the house. He is currently juggling a 3 yr old and 5 yr old to swimming lessons, a party, doing all the washing from our holiday and unpacking the bags. Whilst I am doing a Very Demanding and Important job .

On which note I'd better get back to it!

It's not entitlement - it's acknowledgment of the curtailment of my freedom -and you'd like to curtail that further by giving my partner the right to criticise my hoovering?

No-one's asking someone to be out of the house for 12 hours, and then set to scrubbing the kitchen floors - we're saying they need to do their stuff and not treat the SAHP as a skivvy. If that SAHP was up at 6:30 getting the kids ready for school, then gets back to the house at 9:30, then does it all again 2:30 - 7:30, then that's a full working day. - we'll we're already up to 7 hours, before we get onto any other responsibilities - and that's for a school aged child. No, it's not all full on, but it's also not something that can just be walked away from. By the time the kids are in bed, and the WOHP is home, everyone's knackered. Everyone should pitch in to washup, pickup whatever's been left lying around and put on a load of washing. Why does one person get to sit and do nothing and the other remain on duty?

Being on call doesn't mean that they can't push a hoover round, but having to be on call, and work around pick hours means that the out of home jobs they can take are very, very limited, and the exchange they're making for that limitation is that in that case, they get to occasionally go to the gym, or out for coffee, or sew scented pillow cases or whatever once the kids are at school (again, this is after 5 years of service - just like in many jobs when you start getting extra perks for long years served)

It's a bloody terrible deal for a SAHP if they get to erode their employability, act as family skivvy, and on-call labour 24 hours a day, and then, just when it looks like they might get a break, they're now told that they have all the time in the world and they should fill it with more housework (done to an acceptable standard). While the WOHP gets up, goes to work, comes home to dinner and a clean house and isn't expected to lift a finger? Really? It's entitled to suggest otherwise?

Sod that. The sooner women realise they're being taken for a ride the better.

And good points about why do WOHP get to call the shots and partners generally coming in to the workplace to comment on acceptable standards from Buffy and cailin.

Can I just point out housework/childcare doesn't just happen whilst the WOHP is at work. What about the clearing of dinner plates, washing up, tidying the kitchen, tidying toys away, perhaps putting another load of washing in, cleaning the bath, putting the kids to bed, packing bags for the next day, preparing lunches etc etc etc?

And children aren't in school every week. A quarter of the year they aren't even in school (if we are talking about that age range).

Are you seriously suggesting that a SAHP should have to do all that housework by themselves whilst WOHP puts their feet up watching them?

Because I'd like you to tell that to my DH. Really. Go on tell him why he will be running around for most of the evening why I'll be watching telly. And he'll tell you to fuck off.

And as for acceptable standards...

grin]

Good luck with that one!

I'm not sure many people would be happy to have their partner come in to their workplace to comment on whether they're doing their job to an acceptable standard.

"You really expect that someone being outside the home for 12 hours or more should come home and start doing housework where there is a stay at home parent? "

Why not? If the SAHP has been looking after a baby, a toddler and a school age child in those hours, there may well not have been a spare moment to do any housework.

Although of course, we're not supposed to have more than 2 kids anymore are we, so in future it might just be the toddler and the baby.

I know that when my DC's were under 1, it was actually a real stretch to fit in any housework at all until they'd gone to bed and it was only when both of them were at school, that some time was freed up to do housework - perish the thought that I might use some of that time for a scheduled break, such as a WOHP might be entitled to.

How many SAHMs do you know that actually are skiving off all day, and leaving the house in a shit tip?

Going by the vast majority of threads on here, most SAHMs are fighting a daily uphill battle, skivying around, tidying up after children and grown men, who leave it all to her.

They are doing their best to meet an arbitrary standard of tidiness and cleanliness day in, day out.

Throw in a husband who expects this standard of cleanliness from her, and you're not exactly envisaging a couple sailing off into blissful old age as devoted life partners and friends, are you?

But by all means, go ahead and expect your 'standards'. Remind your wife of them, and reprimand her when she slips. Throw in a yearly, or 6-monthly, appraisal process, if you think it might yield better results.

I am not a SAHP, larry, for the record

I agree with you that that both parents (where there are two in FT residence) should have equal leisure time

what makes my heart sink is your references to "acceptable standards" and an unsaid but definite undertone of control in your posts

What I found from my short experience of being out of work (unemployed & jobhunting rather than sahp by choice) with DCs at school and DP working standard hours was that I had a lot less 'free' time than you'd imagine.

For a start it'd be close to half 9 before I'd get back in. Then I'd have breakfast. I found that because I was 'off' other people expected me to be free to run errands for them. So often I'd be driving around picking up/dropping off this and that for DM & DP. Then there'd be putting more petrol in the car and shopping. Drive back home, have lunch. Mail would have arrived so that might take a couple of phone calls. If the school called they'd expect me to be immediately available for a pick up. I wouldn't have much time for online jobhunting/doing apps before it'd be 2pm and I'd have to drive over for the school run (unless I got there by 2.40 there's be no parking spaces). Back after 3 then they'd be hungry and there might be stuff in school bags to deal with. Homework. DP home, dinner. The day disappears. With nothing to show for it.

I'll admit I'm just not suited to that type of lifestyle. I need a much more rigid routine. I didn't find it a pleasurable leisured lifestyle.

I'm also wondering what are the epxrectation of the WOHP and what are the disciplinary procedure for not being 'up to his/her job'.

What do you think? Does ot mean that women could be entitled to tell their DH off for not putting the dishes away? Or for not doing bedtime with their dcs?

A marriage based on that sort of idea would be a very sad marriage indeed.

Larry when you are saying that the SAHP has several hours of free time, I imagine you are only talking about a parents of school age children aren't you?
And I also imagine that in the 'working hours' of the SAHP you also count the hours spent ferrying everyone at afterschool clubs, friends parties at weekends etcetc? As well as any hours during the night as the WOHP can't possibly get up as he has such a demanding job?

Actually it would quite interesting to count the number of hours that a SAHP really has for themselves once you have removed all the 'extras' at night and weekend. Woud they really have more free time and less working hours than the SAHP? hmm... I wonder.... actually I'm pretty sure that up to about 8yo, the SAHP would STILL work more hours than the WOHP as their involvement at weekends etc seems to always be 'more' than the one of the WOHP

I wish people would stop going on about WOHP roles as if they have no down time while away from the home. And no capacity to help out while at home.

My day (as aforementioned, in a full time heavily demanding and stressful job that usually has me out of the house for 12-13 hours a day) is not go go go 100% of the time. I have an hour to sit and work quietly, check emails etc, on the train in each direction. I have a lunch break most days for at least half an hour. I chat to colleagues in passing throughout the day.

And you know what? I still manage to do things like help clean the kitchen after dinner, tidy DD's mess from the day, do washing etc. Because I'm not an entitled arse and because I don't see DH as my servant.

AF,

That is a really good question. I guess that the responsibilities would be set in a joint discussion (for both the WOHP and SAHP).

If these (jointly agreed) responsibilities were not met, then there are several possibilities.One possibility would be role reversal. Another would be the SAHP having to consider getting paid work to pay for a nanny and/or cleaner. Clearly, again, this would be subject to joint discussion and agreement.

Simple question to you. If one partner is working all hours god sends, is it fair (in terms of equality) the other partner having several completely free hours every single day?

You really expect that someone being outside the home for 12 hours or more should come home and start doing housework where there is a stay at home parent?

And "being on call" for children at school prevents the sahp doing anything else?

I agree with Larry there are ridiculous degrees of entitlement being suggested here.

I work with someone whose wife hasn't worked since their children were born. The children are both at school, no special needs. They live in a smallish modern house in a town. He's at work until at least 8, frequently later, with a 1 hour commute home.

Are you seriously suggesting that she cannot fit in keeping the house in a reasonable standard in the hours between dropping the children off at school and collecting them ?

can you detail your disciplinary procedures should the sahp not fulfil the terms of the contract, Larry ?

They have zero responsibility to do jobs that are solely for the benefit of the other partner. They have zero responsibility to do a job to a standard above that which they feel is reasonable.

'Just as they have zero pension, zero redundancy, zero paid holiday.'

No, they don't. They generally get to share 50% of the working partner's pension and redundancy. You cannot claim equity in terms of respect if you are not prepared to agree to equity in terms of responsibility. This is where 'feminism' goes beyond fairness (equal free time, equal money, equal responsibility) and strays into a ridiculous degree of entitlement.

Oh, and unlike a WOH job, where your experience and pay will rise with your time served, your perceived value will actually be falling, all the while you do this.