Taylor Swift vs Nicki Minaj

If NM's issue was one of race then why did her tweets not reference race, rather 'other girls' and girls with slim bodies?

I think it's understandable that TS concluded it was a dig at her, given that her video was nominated. NM did appear to be pitting women against women. If she meant white girls, why did she say 'other'?

I think this article pretty much nails it
www.salon.com/2015/07/22/10_questions_taylor_swift_could_have_asked_herself_before_picking_a_fight_with_nicki_minaj/

It's important to remember this is happening in a U.S. context which isn't exactly the same as Britain, though the are lots of commonalities between the cultures.

this article and the comments cover most of the references, but probably not all - I'm sure she's packed in a bunch of stuff I don't know about

io9.com/all-the-crazy-science-fiction-references-in-taylor-swif-1705145757

MyChild, happy to clarify whatever I said that lost you...?

Buffy - I liked the TS video for the structure, the style, the cultural references (two of the characters being from Law & Order) the general styling, the mickey taking with the knifed teddy being blown to bits at the end and the use of the London skyline. I also like this version better than the album version - both great, but on a musical note I do like what Kendrick Lamar added to it.

I don't think NM was calling out TS. I think NM was calling out a whole industry that treats her as niche rather than normal. TS made a fool of herself by jumping in and assuming NM's understandable frustration was about her. I think NM is suffering real racism, and when she pushed back on that I don't think she needed to stop and see how this might make TS feel. I don't think TS was on her mind at all.

Also the attitude in the U.S. that black women's bodies are vulgar and some sort of burleseque joke is a feminist issue. Good for NM celebrating curves and casting them in the light of "sex goddess" rather than "clown."

Managed to listen to just over 1 minute of each. As music they are both awful.

As videos the Minaj one is ghastly. The other one was unoriginal and it's got Lena Dunham in it but is marginally less awful than Minaj's.

NM and TS are both awful, I can't see how they are in any way feminist.

cigars " however rebellious she tries to portray herself as."

and here was me thinking TS tries to portray herself as wholesome. Perception is all I guess.

MyChild "Women are behind all the other second class citizens for a reason. They just can't see it, and are happy with their lot"

that's lost me too sorry

I do think that the media and to some extent this thread, have made a hell of a lot from comments that were put into 140 characters, some of which were emoticons.

Me and my huge ass need to go to bed now

and she completely ignores the fact that she's massively benefitted from being a white skinny music artist

But see, this is where I get lost. I don't understand how it is acceptable to claim that Taylors success is massively down to her skin colour.

Don't get me wrong, I do see an issue with culture appropriation, and I do accept the argument for the existence of white feminism and bias in the industry. But when did it become ok for people like Kanye West and Nicky Minaj who are hugely successful to attack Taylor Swift and then call her racist or self centered if she stands up for herself?

Are any other white artists being called out? Having their stages crashed? Being mentioned by stealth on twitter? That is a genuine question. Are there?

Meanwhile the blokes are laughing about the whole thing

Good for NM for pointing out that skinny white women with pancake asses are not the only sexy, desirable and appreciated body type. She is defiantly pointing out that her large bum is not something she is ashamed of, but proud of

But her ass is fake if you look at old photos over her she had a very flat ass. She hates her true body type.

See, when I read Nickys tweet, it doesn't really say race to me, she mentions "women with very slim bodies". But knowing what happened with Kanye in 2009, and from reading about stuff surrounding this (there was a twitter spat recently between two women I can't recall the names off right now, centered around similar issues) I can see that Nicky was probably referencing skinny white girls without saying as much.

Then Taylor takes it personally and yells feminism, and then she gets accused of white feminism, because, well, she is white, and skinny and she encapsulates the whole issue somehow.

I am a bit lost with it all too though.

MyChild I don't appreciate being told I'm not a feminist just because I disagree with you...

Achieve I'll accept "using" might not have been the best word. Maybe "ignoring"? Her feminism seems to be quite shallow and 'woo girl-power!' (as her response to Minaj shows), and she completely ignores the fact that she's massively benefitted from being a white skinny music artist, however rebellious she tries to portray herself as.

oh yes, she did, I just saw that on Twitter. But if that's how she felt it came across, can she not call that out?

I should probably bow out now because "culture appropriation" is a topic that totally loses me.

Taylor wrote "Its not like you to pit women against each other".

No achieve, Taylor made a comment about pitting women against each other, hold on I will double check.